thoughts on this video???

[harrycallahan]

I just don't know on this. Somehow I don't trust him, mostly because he lied to the police officer and he was carrying a gun. We have rights and I'm not asking anyone to give them up at all, but Once a person creates a situation and presents false information I really no longer trust or respect them. Thats where I am.

[RHenriksen]

What did he lie about?

[harrycallahan]

What did he lie about?

The officer question him directly about his suspenders and the button. He lied to conceal the camera.

[RottenApple]

The officer question him directly about his suspenders and the button. He lied to conceal the camera.

With all the reports (in news, blogs, etc) about officers deleting video & audio of encounters they don't like, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it either. BTW, I'm not saying that all or even most officers do this. But there have been enough reports of this occurring that it is cause for concern.

And frankly, he wasn't under any obligation to tell the officer about it.

[jmra]

Mixed emotions on this one. I don't like the idea of him looking for an encounter but he was obviously right about the law based on the supervisors immediate response.

Let's role play for a second and pretend that he wasn't trolling but simply exercising his rights and it was someone else that happened to catch the encounter on film. Let's also assume for arguments sake that he is right about it being illegal to stop him simply because he is exercising that right.
If he is simply minding his own business and completely within the law how do you feel about a (illegal) stop, (illegal) seizure of property, and (illegal) demand for ID?

[RHenriksen]

Mixed emotions on this one. I don't like the idea of him looking for an encounter but he was obviously right about the law based on the supervisors immediate response.

Let's role play for a second and pretend that he wasn't trolling but simply exercising his rights and it was someone else that happened to catch the encounter on film. Let's also assume for arguments sake that he is right about it being illegal to stop him simply because he is exercising that right.
If he is simply minding his own business and completely within the law how do you feel about a (illegal) stop, (illegal) seizure of property, and (illegal) demand for ID?

Fair questions, all. I continue to be puzzled at how people can be so certain of his trolling intention.

[jmra]

Mixed emotions on this one. I don't like the idea of him looking for an encounter but he was obviously right about the law based on the supervisors immediate response.

Let's role play for a second and pretend that he wasn't trolling but simply exercising his rights and it was someone else that happened to catch the encounter on film. Let's also assume for arguments sake that he is right about it being illegal to stop him simply because he is exercising that right.
If he is simply minding his own business and completely within the law how do you feel about a (illegal) stop, (illegal) seizure of property, and (illegal) demand for ID?

Fair questions, all. I continue to be puzzled at how people can be so certain of his trolling intention.

I'm not sure that he was trolling. I just want to remove that sentiment from the argument so I can get a response to what I feel is the heart of the issue.
I will say this, If open carry ever became legal in Texas, I would not want to be stopped by an uniformed cop every time some uniformed citizen called in "a man with a gun". And if anyone thinks that the officers would recieve training with the new law, I challenge you to stop 10 police officers at random and ask if it is legal to CC in church with a CHL. I bet 8 of 10 would say no.

[RHenriksen]

Oh, you're not who I was referring to re: trolling

[Keith B]

I said IMO he was trolling. Still believe that to be the case, but could be proved wrong if I had a full description of his actions prior to the police being called.

Bottom line, he seems overly prepared IMO for a police confrontation. He was belligerent in his responses, spouting case law. As a former LEO, I will tell you attitude is everything on a stop. If a person is very polite and cooperative, it sets the tone of the encounter much better than if the person sounds like a jail-house lawyer. I do not know the laws in Maine, so as to the officer confiscating his weapon before ascertaining if there really was a threat may have been improper. But had he just said 'Sorry, didn't mean to cause any alarm. Just heading the coffee shop...' instead of taking the 5th there on the street and refusing to politely contest the detention, he would have been on his way quickly IMO. The old adage you catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar goes with this one.

[RHenriksen]

I agree completely that honey > vinegar, and in a perfect world he could have adopted a more friendly, calm, and less confrontational tone while still standing up for his rights. On the other hand, being *prepared*, legally, to defend yourself is no more evidence of trolling than carrying concealed every day is evidence of being a paranoid 'prepper. How do you think anti-gun progressives view those of us who quietly go about our business every day carrying concealed? Buncha whackos

If it helps flesh out the picture a bit, Norm is a slender, rather nerdy guy in his 20s. I'm sure he finds the police rather intimidating, and since he's not a 35 year old, 6' muscled up veteran of foreign wars, compensates for his unease with a harsher tone of voice than would be ideal.

I said IMO he was trolling. Still believe that to be the case, but could be proved wrong if I had a full description of his actions prior to the police being called.

Bottom line, he seems overly prepared IMO for a police confrontation. He was belligerent in his responses, spouting case law. As a former LEO, I will tell you attitude is everything on a stop. If a person is very polite and cooperative, it sets the tone of the encounter much better than if the person sounds like a jail-house lawyer. I do not know the laws in Maine, so as to the officer confiscating his weapon before ascertaining if there really was a threat may have been improper. But had he just said 'Sorry, didn't mean to cause any alarm. Just heading the coffee shop...' instead of taking the 5th there on the street and refusing to politely contest the detention, he would have been on his way quickly IMO. The old adage you catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar goes with this one.

[Beiruty]

The guy knew exactly what to say. He prevailed. A better approach is to meet with PD Chief and have chat about open carry contact procedures/reactions.
The Supervisor of the officer knew what is going on and cut it short and let the guy go on his way.

[RHenriksen]

That's been done in smaller municipalities around Maine; I'm not sure that the chief in the Big City of Portland has been willing to accept such an invitation to visit. I'm curious, though - will ask about this.

The guy knew exactly what to say. He prevailed. A better approach is to meet with PD Chief and have chat about open carry contact procedures/reactions.
The Supervisor of the officer knew what is going on and cut it short and let the guy go on his way.

[Keith B]

I agree completely that honey > vinegar, and in a perfect world he could have adopted a more friendly, calm, and less confrontational tone while still standing up for his rights. On the other hand, being *prepared*, legally, to defend yourself is no more evidence of trolling than carrying concealed every day is evidence of being a paranoid 'prepper. How do you think anti-gun progressives view those of us who quietly go about our business every day carrying concealed? Buncha whackos

If it helps flesh out the picture a bit, Norm is a slender, rather nerdy guy in his 20s. I'm sure he finds the police rather intimidating, and since he's not a 35 year old, 6' muscled up veteran of foreign wars, compensates for his unease with a harsher tone of voice than would be ideal.

I really wasn't thinking of the trolling for the being prepared, but do believe he was 'extra prepared' for the confrontation. Maybe he is just one of those walking encyclopedia/law books with a photographic memory.

My thought of why I felt he may have been trolling was if you don't look suspicious or are not loitering around a location, then you usually won't get called on. The only two 'man with a gun' calls I ever responded to on open carry were those where the individual was acting very suspicious and caused the individuals to be alarmed about their presence in general, as well as the fact they were armed with an openly displayed weapon.

[RHenriksen]

Yes - smart/nerdy/skinny/20s, and it's Maine - not a lot going on! Norm is part of a core group who's very focused on this topic, so it's not surprising to me that he can trot out those cites from memory. He did stumble a bit on the cites, which tells me a) he was nervous, and b) he's not quite as thoroughly rehearsed as you might think.

Portland is the bluest city in Maine - full of residents 'from away' (not native Mainers), and plenty of those are from Massachusetts. Much more likely to have a MWAG call in Portland than anywhere else in the state. I started open carrying for the sheer novelty factor when I'm there in the summertime, and I tend to be in touristy areas (but not Portland). LOTS of license plates from Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey; but no MWAG calls (so far).

I really wasn't thinking of the trolling for the being prepared, but do believe he was 'extra prepared' for the confrontation. Maybe he is just one of those walking encyclopedia/law books with a photographic memory.

My thought of why I felt he may have been trolling was if you don't look suspicious or are not loitering around a location, then you usually won't get called on. The only two 'man with a gun' calls I ever responded to on open carry were those where the individual was acting very suspicious and caused the individuals to be alarmed about their presence in general, as well as the fact they were armed with an openly displayed weapon.

[A-R]

Guy was obviously within his rights to carry - far as we know (I'm no expert in Maine law). But I agree this seems like a "stunt" - maybe not preplanned, but he definitely rehearsed how he would respond if/when this happened. More power to him, but previous posts are correct that this does little to push RKBA rights forward and can and will turn some folks against "those crazy gun nuts"

That said, after watching I stumbled upon this series of videos and while I know nothing about this group and don't necessarily agree with all their opinions, they come off in this video as much more reasonable and willing to have honest give-and-take with police in a reasonable setting. The officer also comes off as very reasonable, willing to listen, and shows respect for these citizens. Overall much better vibe.


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