Road rage incident with CHL involved

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Dragonfighter
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#31

Post by Dragonfighter »

philip964 wrote:Heres a link to the Channel 2 report
It has a picture of the "innocent until proven guilty suspect" in case you were wondering.
Had to give up his CHL and his gun as part of his bond.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/22750812/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ach, he's just puffy from crying. :roll:

Seriously though, if appearances (which carry evaluative information) made a person more or less innocent I'd have been buried a long time ago. If I recall from the OP he said twice, once to a relative and once to LEO, "I've done something terrible." He's an idiot if this all plays out the way it has been portrayed but he doesn't strike me as an overt danger to society at this point.
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#32

Post by zigzag »

His eyes appear zonked up. Bet he was sleepless for the past 24 hrs. Its sad this immature person was given the license to carry in Texas. So much gungho attitude after a car incident ending in a loss of life . CHL classes should incorporate an anger management chapter on road rage. This is something important to address into.

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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#33

Post by DONT TREAD ON ME »

zigzag wrote:His eyes appear zonked up. Bet he was sleepless for the past 24 hrs. Its sad this immature person was given the license to carry in Texas. So much gungho attitude after a car incident ending in a loss of life . CHL classes should incorporate an anger management chapter on road rage. This is something important to address into.
My instructor actually did. He said that this was an extremely important area to focus on and understand.

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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#34

Post by srothstein »

And before everyone hurries to lynch this man, I wanted to point out one suspicious thing in the original story. Tell me if this sounds as bad to you all as it does to me.

The shooter hits the woman's car and drives off. The woman chases to get the license number and does so. Instead of slowing down, she passes him and then he starts chasing her. Something here doesn't make sense to me, not at all. The woman is a cop. She is off duty and has her kid with her. But she passes the man running from the accident? I know I get suspicious from years of working with criminals, but this makes no sense to me. How many times have we all posted on this board that our families lives come first?

And, I have to believe that there was another gun in the incident. She was an off duty officer. She probably had a pistol also. When she pulled up to pass him, was she actually trying to get him to stop? Was she flashing something shiny at him, either a gun or a badge?

What I come to the conclusion of is that we do not have the full story yet and all we really know is that a person with a CHL shot a 13 year old girl and ran from that shooting. I know I jump to conclusions based on him running, but we really don't have all of the answers in this case yet.
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gigag04
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#35

Post by gigag04 »

srothstein wrote:And before everyone hurries to lynch this man, I wanted to point out one suspicious thing in the original story. Tell me if this sounds as bad to you all as it does to me.

The shooter hits the woman's car and drives off. The woman chases to get the license number and does so. Instead of slowing down, she passes him and then he starts chasing her. Something here doesn't make sense to me, not at all. The woman is a cop. She is off duty and has her kid with her. But she passes the man running from the accident? I know I get suspicious from years of working with criminals, but this makes no sense to me. How many times have we all posted on this board that our families lives come first?

And, I have to believe that there was another gun in the incident. She was an off duty officer. She probably had a pistol also. When she pulled up to pass him, was she actually trying to get him to stop? Was she flashing something shiny at him, either a gun or a badge?

What I come to the conclusion of is that we do not have the full story yet and all we really know is that a person with a CHL shot a 13 year old girl and ran from that shooting. I know I jump to conclusions based on him running, but we really don't have all of the answers in this case yet.
:iagree: As I've been saying for a while the media NEVER get's right. I can tell you that from reading the media's rendition of arrests that I have made. I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story.
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Westfield
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#36

Post by Westfield »

[quote][/quote]As I've been saying for a while the media NEVER get's right. I can tell you that from reading the media's rendition of arrests that I have made. I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story.

It is indeed unforfunate but you will never get both sides of the story from the media. I am a recovering (former) journalist. One of the reasons I left the profession was because there was little room for fair reporting. 95 percent of the industry is populated by young liberals and anything to do with the legal possession of handguns is similar to showing satan and cross.

You never hear any criticism of the criminal having a handgun, but you will about a law abiding citizen.
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McKnife
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#37

Post by McKnife »

I was thinking the exact same thing as Rothstein... something smells fishy. Also, the press never supports a CHL holder, even in times of self-defense.
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#38

Post by OldSchool »

austinrealtor wrote:Even those fence-sitters who would generally support our shared cause can be easily scared off by thoughts that - because a gun is so readily available - it is very likely to be used when someone "snaps" or "freaks out". We need to constantly portray ourselves as calm, rational people who would not "snap" in this way and who know, unequivocally, right from wrong.
:iagree:

That's why I try to be respectful of the anti's point of view, even if I don't agree with them!
srothstein wrote:And before everyone hurries to lynch this man, I wanted to point out one suspicious thing in the original story.
:iagree:

In fact, there are several points in question, including the fact that there are no details on how the original contact occurred.
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Paladin
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#39

Post by Paladin »

excellent post rothstein!!

Some history of what the Houston media has previously done to a Texas CHL here
KHOU originally said:
Police say they think a young white man[CHL], who just boarded, gunned down a fellow rider.


And a public defender eventually got the CHL no-billed.
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MechAg94
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#40

Post by MechAg94 »

hirundo82 wrote:
MechAg94 wrote:I think y'all are overreacting on this coming back at us. This is the not the first CHL holder to screw up and he won't be the last. The DPS statistics already show that CHL holders in general are good people and commit crimes at a much lower rate than the average population. This one incident won't change that.
The problem is that people are irrational, emotional beings. If you have two people debating and one talks about the statistics showing that CHL holders are on average far more law-abiding than the general population, and the other one says, "Yes, but this one person with a CHL gunned down a young girl in front of her mother," an observer is likely going to walk away with a negative view of CHL holders in general.
In response, you could point out a dozen cases of non-CHL holders doing the same thing or stories of CHL holders defending themselves.
As pointed out about the "bus" incident above, the media is going to say bad things about us regardless of how good or bad the shoot is. I would rather not have this incident happen either, but I think we are all agreed that (barring some unknown evidence) what he did was stupid and wrong. I would have no problem saying that to anyone.

I would also have no problem pointing out this kid did not need a CHL to have the gun with him at that time. We have to remember that all the CHL represents is that we have no significant criminal record and we are over 21. It is only a "good guy" badge because we make it that way through our behavior.
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McKnife
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#41

Post by McKnife »

Any updates on this? Any new information? I am very interested in this incident because I want to know the facts.
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#42

Post by 03Lightningrocks »

While I understand why some of y'all would post the ole wait till his trial business, I am trying real hard to figure out what kind of sorry piece of garbage would follow a car while firing rounds at it? This hunk of human waist killed a little girl. I don't care if he was a Priest and ate dinner with Jesus himself, CHL or not, this guy needs locked up forever at the least.
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McKnife
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#43

Post by McKnife »

I'll ask again... has anyone heard an ending to this incident? :headscratch

Funny how this story has been buried! I can't find any news on it... so it sounds to me like the suspect probably wasn't convicted, otherwise they'd have a field day.
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baldeagle
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#44

Post by baldeagle »

Paladin wrote:excellent post rothstein!!

Some history of what the Houston media has previously done to a Texas CHL here
KHOU originally said:
Police say they think a young white man[CHL], who just boarded, gunned down a fellow rider.


And a public defender eventually got the CHL no-billed.
Thanks for the link. I read almost every post in that thread, and I've read most of the posts in this thread. I have some observations.

1) People are far too quick to judge. Wait until all the facts come out before denigrating the young man who killed the girl. Yes, it looks bad now, and some of his behavior is suspicious. Why did he not stay at the scene of the shooting and wait for police? Why did he not call the police when he got home? OTOH, his comment that he had done "something terrible" is not necessarily an admission of guilt. I was foreman on a jury for a DUI trial. When we found the defendant guilty, I knew we had done the right thing, but I still felt terrible. I stated, in the jury room, "God help us. We have just found a fellow citizen guilty of a crime." Even if the shooting was justified, the man could still feel very bad about the outcome.

2) Some people really need to rethink why they have or have applied for a CHL. If you are not prepared to defend yourself in a situation where you have split seconds to make a life or death decision, perhaps you need to disarm and go home. No, a CHL is not a license to kill. It is an awesome responsibility which we should all take seriously. Taking your CHL seriously does not mean only practicing to become accurate with your weapon. It also means being alert at all times, aware of your surroundings and prepared to react to life-threatening behavior. And it also means game planning various scenarios on your mind. If you don't prepare for the unexpected, you will freeze. Even after the young man was no-billed (in the case linked to by KHOU), some people still felt the young man's actions were wrong. Why did he pull the knife? Why didn't he use the knife instead of shooting the guy? Perhaps the young man had engaged in game planning. He thought through a scenario where he was being threatened, decided he would first pull his knife to show his attacker that he was serious about defending himself. When he realized that wouldn't work, he pulled his gun and fired. Perhaps you would do it differently. But why? And how? If you haven't thought these things through carefully, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a loaded weapon in public.

Here's an analogy. When my daughters were growing up, I taught them that they needed to decide, before the boy ever arrived at the door, if they were going to have sex with him. They knew, quite clearly, that I disapproved of them having sex outside of marriage, but my point was that after you get in the car it's too late to make such important decisions. Those decisions must be made in the cold, hard light of day when there is no pressure to decide.

The same is true of being a CHL holder. Why do you carry? To defend yourself and others. So what are you prepared to do when the pressure is sky high and you have to decide NOW? I'm here to tell you, you had better have decided LONG before you got in that situation. In the heat of the moment it's too late to decide. Take if from an old guy who has learned the hard way, you never know what you'll do in a given situation until you are already in it - unless you've prepared ahead of time.

So, rather than judge this young man before you have all the facts, ask yourself what you would do if you were driving your car late at night and a car was chasing you and pulled up alongside you. Would you put your hand on your weapon? Draw it? Prepare to fire? Would you attempt to drive away? How many times would you do that before you decided it was time to take a stand?

I won't criticize the young man until all the facts are known and it becomes obvious that he made the wrong decision. There is no question that this incident is a tragedy. A young girl lost her life. Her family is changed forever. But I doubt this young man will sleep peacefully for a long, long time. Even if the shooting was justified.
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baldeagle
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Re: Road rage incident with CHL involved

#45

Post by baldeagle »

philip964 wrote:Heres a link to the Channel 2 report
It has a picture of the "innocent until proven guilty suspect" in case you were wondering.
Had to give up his CHL and his gun as part of his bond.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/22750812/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It doesn't only have that. After the video you are treated to a still picture of a Smith & Wesson Airweight .38 special, a target to the right of it and a box of bullets in the background underneath the gun. The message is obvious - guns kill. Why not a picture of the young girl with some flowers around her? Why not the logo for the TV channel? Because the media wants to convey the message that guns kill, and the only way to stop the killing is to take away the guns.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
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