Past Indiscretions

[flechero]

jmra,

If you are suggesting that you have never broken a single law, well, I'll just agree to disagree. For the record, I never condoned any misbehaving nor did I say everyone has a criminal record (which was actually part of my original point)... I did say I think that everyone has committed a crime (some minor and some major) in their lifetime so if you never got caught, you can be proud of the fact that you were LUCKY, not good.

You point out that you don't hit in anger... as if to suggest my involvement in an altercation might be anything other than defensive? (I also have not hit anyone in anger since about Jr. high) That's rich. [sarcasm]

I'm out, this is going nowhere.

[RX8er]

I have stayed out of this for some time now because I don't think any positions will be changed. Is there a difference between forgive and forget? When do we forgive someone for their actions? I do think it is kind of funny that we have some Sunday morning folks that seem to not want to do either. I think there is some book that talks about this right? Take CHL out of the discussion; I think it is silly that something someone does years ago can still haunt them today. Not everything and all cases but should exist a method at which you can truly remove history.

As others have pointed out, this is only recent that this has happened this way. When I was a kid, I used to make my own fire crackers, big ones!! I had a cop tell me that fireworks were illegal to light in the city and I stopped and then he proceeded to tell my mom and dad. Today, I would be arrested and the ATF be called. Here are few examples of why our forever system is broken:

I have a friend who was arrested because he had a baseball bat, glove and two balls in his truck. The bat was a weapon. Albeit, my friend was being a jerk to the cop and is why the cop arrested.
I know a sex offender because he and his girlfriend had sex when he was 17 and she was 16. Dad of daughter has since apologized. Has a record for ever though and he is married to the same girl.
I interviewed a guy that had MIP arrest when he was 20 y/o and had 0% BAC.
I know an honor student that was arrested and jailed because he had 30 30 ammunition (no rifle) left in his truck after he went hunting. On school property.
I know a good kid arrested because he had a knife in his car on school property.

There are very few people in this world that have not broken a law that you could have been arrested for. I'm not saying convicted, but arrested and a record for life.

Here is one example that I can say you can be arrested for and have a felony conviction for in Texas that many of you are doing today. All children more than 40 pounds, ages 4 through 8, must ride in a booster seat while a vehicle is moving. Children taller than 4 feet 9, however, are not required to be secured in booster seats. You can be arrested for Child Endangerment and charged with a felony. Any of you parents / grandparents fall in to this category? Don't think this is possible?

It happened in Trinity, Texas if I'm not mistaken and I remember reading about other cases as well when I was reading about this one.

You really think you should loose your ability to have a Gun or CHL because you didn't put your 4'8" grandson in a booster seat while taking him to the park and get ice cream.

[jmra]

I have stayed out of this for some time now because I don't think any positions will be changed. Is there a difference between forgive and forget? When do we forgive someone for their actions? I do think it is kind of funny that we have some Sunday morning folks that seem to not want to do either. I think there is some book that talks about this right? Take CHL out of the discussion; I think it is silly that something someone does years ago can still haunt them today. Not everything and all cases but should exist a method at which you can truly remove history.

As others have pointed out, this is only recent that this has happened this way. When I was a kid, I used to make my own fire crackers, big ones!! I had a cop tell me that fireworks were illegal to light in the city and I stopped and then he proceeded to tell my mom and dad. Today, I would be arrested and the ATF be called. Here are few examples of why our forever system is broken:

I have a friend who was arrested because he had a baseball bat, glove and two balls in his truck. The bat was a weapon. Albeit, my friend was being a jerk to the cop and is why the cop arrested.
I know a sex offender because he and his girlfriend had sex when he was 17 and she was 16. Dad of daughter has since apologized. Has a record for ever though and he is married to the same girl.
I interviewed a guy that had MIP arrest when he was 20 y/o and had 0% BAC.
I know an honor student that was arrested and jailed because he had 30 30 ammunition (no rifle) left in his truck after he went hunting. On school property.
I know a good kid arrested because he had a knife in his car on school property.

There are very few people in this world that have not broken a law that you could have been arrested for. I'm not saying convicted, but arrested and a record for life.

Here is one example that I can say you can be arrested for and have a felony conviction for in Texas that many of you are doing today. All children more than 40 pounds, ages 4 through 8, must ride in a booster seat while a vehicle is moving. Children taller than 4 feet 9, however, are not required to be secured in booster seats. You can be arrested for Child Endangerment and charged with a felony. Any of you parents / grandparents fall in to this category? Don't think this is possible?

It happened in Trinity, Texas if I'm not mistaken and I remember reading about other cases as well when I was reading about this one.

You really think you should loose your ability to have a Gun or CHL because you didn't put your 4'8" grandson in a booster seat while taking him to the park and get ice cream.

In my opinion, none of the cases you listed above should have ever progressed beyond the investigation stage much less result in any type of conviction. I believe in most of these cases a decent lawyer would have resulted in a much different outcome.

But, I think the OP was referring to those who chose to partipate in activities which are now impacting their ability to obtain a CHL (I know this was my reference point in my responses). We see posts frequently about people with multiple convictions, various drug arrests/convictions, B&E, and acts of violence. Many of these weren't even 5 years in the past.

We also hear about the guy who got busted for something 20 yrs ago and has been a model citizen ever since. I do understand mercy and grace. But I also understand the laws of God, nature, and man. If my son chooses to day dream in class instead of doing his work, he can ask for and receive forgiveness from both his teacher and his parents for his lack of diligence, but it doesn't change the fact that he didn't do the work and it doesn't change the negative impact his actions had on his grade. In short, forgiveness does not supplant the law of "you reap what you sow". If a farmer plants beans, no amount of forgiveness no matter how great is going to yield corn at harvest time.

As for the booster seat thing; I didn't keep my kids in booster seats until they met the legal requirements out of fear of the legal system. I did it out of fear of my RN wife who has many years of OR experience. She often reminds me of what could happen to me in my sleep.

[jmra]

jmra,

If you are suggesting that you have never broken a single law, well, I'll just agree to disagree. For the record, I never condoned any misbehaving nor did I say everyone has a criminal record (which was actually part of my original point)... I did say I think that everyone has committed a crime (some minor and some major) in their lifetime so if you never got caught, you can be proud of the fact that you were LUCKY, not good.

You point out that you don't hit in anger... as if to suggest my involvement in an altercation might be anything other than defensive? (I also have not hit anyone in anger since about Jr. high) That's rich. [sarcasm]

I'm out, this is going nowhere.

I'm sure there were laws I broke without even knowing I broke them. But I never intentionally broke any law that would have resulted in me being the the OP in "one of those posts". I did get a speeding ticket when I was 18. The ticket was paid immediately even though I could have gotten out of the ticket.
I did not mean to imply in anyway that you were at fault in your self-defense incident. My apologies if my response was poorly worded to suggest otherwise.
As far as luck being the only reason everyone doesn't have a criminal record, well on that we will simply have to agree to disagree.

[03Lightningrocks]

I tend to look at situations of breaking the laws while endangering other people different than property crime laws. Many charges or convictions don't accurately reflect he character of the person convicted.

I suppose I am saying that if a person commits a crime that endangers the safety of innocents, I am less forgiving than if a person has commited a crime that simply involves personal property.

My opinion however, does not matter since there are laws in place governing these issues. If we or others don't like them or feel they are wrong, they should take the steps required to change them. I admit it... I have many issues in my life that mean far more to me than a person who cannot have a weapon because they vandalized property when 18 years old or made some other stupid mistake.

[PUCKER]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

[talltex]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

There ya' go...don't think anything else needs to be said.

[anygunanywhere]

Veteran status gives us a CHL discount. That doesn't roll off after 10 years. So, it seems fair that convicted felon status, which disqualifies someone from getting a CHL, should also not roll off after 10 years.

You do realize that all it takes for legal behavior to be reclassified as a felony is one swoop of a pen on paper.

You need to read "Atlas Shrugged".

After you read this book thenyou will understand.

Just because someone is a convicted felon that does not mean that they are a danger or a menace to society. You paint with a broad brush.

Anygunanywhere

[gigag04]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

Taking this to the extreme would make for an ugly society. Jesus also said to judge with righteous judgement.

[jmra]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a stone. But, I did shoot a tight group with my new XDs yesterday.

On a serious note;
The verse you reference was Jesus talking to a group of men who were about to kill a woman for sleeping with men she wasn't married to. More than likely some of the men about to stone her were the very men she slept with.
The implication here is that these men were about to stone the woman for doing exactly the same thing they were accusing her of.

This doesn't mean that because you lied when you were 12 about breaking a window that you couldn't call out a guy for driving while intoxicated. That would be a total misapplication of the lesson being taught. Otherwise we as parents would not be justified in correcting our children when they do something wrong because we also did wrong as children. This of course is not what the scripture teaches at all.

[PUCKER]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a stone. But, I did shoot a tight group with my new XDs yesterday.

On a serious note;
The verse you reference was Jesus talking to a group of men who were about to kill a woman for sleeping with men she wasn't married to. More than likely some of the men about to stone her were the very men she slept with.
The implication here is that these men were about to stone the woman for doing exactly the same thing they were accusing her of.

This doesn't mean that because you lied when you were 12 about breaking a window that you couldn't call out a guy for driving while intoxicated. That would be a total misapplication of the lesson being taught. Otherwise we as parents would not be justified in correcting our children when they commit the same offenses we committed as children. This of course is not what the scripture teaches at all.

I do remember the verse and context, thank you for the refresher though.

[PUCKER]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

Taking this to the extreme would make for an ugly society. Jesus also said to judge with righteous judgement.

Lemme guess...you have "Righteous Judgement" etched into at least one of your guns...

That may or may not be a vague reference to "Pulp Fiction" (my memory is fading).

[jmra]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a stone. But, I did shoot a tight group with my new XDs yesterday.

On a serious note;
The verse you reference was Jesus talking to a group of men who were about to kill a woman for sleeping with men she wasn't married to. More than likely some of the men about to stone her were the very men she slept with.
The implication here is that these men were about to stone the woman for doing exactly the same thing they were accusing her of.

This doesn't mean that because you lied when you were 12 about breaking a window that you couldn't call out a guy for driving while intoxicated. That would be a total misapplication of the lesson being taught. Otherwise we as parents would not be justified in correcting our children when they commit the same offenses we committed as children. This of course is not what the scripture teaches at all.

I do remember the verse and context, thank you for the refresher though.

You're welcome.

[JALLEN]

As others have pointed out, this is only recent that this has happened this way. When I was a kid, I used to make my own fire crackers, big ones!! I had a cop tell me that fireworks were illegal to light in the city and I stopped and then he proceeded to tell my mom and dad. Today, I would be arrested and the ATF be called. Here are few examples of why our forever system is broken:

I have a friend who was arrested because he had a baseball bat, glove and two balls in his truck. The bat was a weapon. Albeit, my friend was being a jerk to the cop and is why the cop arrested.
I know a sex offender because he and his girlfriend had sex when he was 17 and she was 16. Dad of daughter has since apologized. Has a record for ever though and he is married to the same girl.
I interviewed a guy that had MIP arrest when he was 20 y/o and had 0% BAC.
I know an honor student that was arrested and jailed because he had 30 30 ammunition (no rifle) left in his truck after he went hunting. On school property.
I know a good kid arrested because he had a knife in his car on school property.

>>SNIP<<
Here is one example that I can say you can be arrested for and have a felony conviction for in Texas that many of you are doing today. All children more than 40 pounds, ages 4 through 8, must ride in a booster seat while a vehicle is moving. Children taller than 4 feet 9, however, are not required to be secured in booster seats. You can be arrested for Child Endangerment and charged with a felony. Any of you parents / grandparents fall in to this category? Don't think this is possible?

None of those acts were criminal when I was growing up, well, except the 16 year old girl bit. That's the one crime I was intensely enthusiastic about committing if I ever had the chance. I went to a great deal of trouble, not to mention expense, to surround myself with likely victims, for naught.

Maybe that is the problem. The Legislature, at the behest of its constituents, has made all sorts of hitherto perhaps foolish conduct criminal. In retrospect, like the ordnance banning shooting Indians from a street car in Austin, it seems idiotic when applied. We've also been seized with "Zero Tolerance" as a good and noble concept, equally idiotic in its application. It seems to serve only as a good and frequent source of newspaper articles lampooning school boards that apply it with solemn indignitude.

There is an article on Drudge this morning about human intelligence slowly declining, and I shouldn't wonder.

[talltex]

What's that little ole verse from the Very Good Book?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." (I'm sure a theologian will come along and provide the exact wording, chapter and verse soon)

I cannot cast any stones.

Taking this to the extreme would make for an ugly society. Jesus also said to judge with righteous judgement.

Taking anything to the extreme rarely works out very well...but a little humility and acknowledgment of one's own faults tends to bring our egos back in bounds. In many other verses of the Bible we are warned "Judge not, that ye be not judged". That verse (and other similar ones) doesnt refer to civil judgements, but to individuals passing judgments on their brothers, while failing to acknowledge their own shortcomings.