CHL Instructor says State Fair is an amusement park...

[KD5NRH]

Therefore, they can ask to search absolutely ANYTHING that you wish to bring onto their property. The Fair does not belong to the people or the city.

No one's arguing a private organization's right to control access. But, it's highly objectionable to involve the police in the process.

I would definitely argue their right to control access to city property:

Texas State Fair spurned offers from developers and sold its property to the City of Dallas in 1904 under an agreement that set aside a period each fall to hold the annual exposition.

[wrt45]

They both plainly state that the "State Fair of Texas" is owned by a private organization. Therefore, they can ask to search absolutely ANYTHING that you wish to bring onto their property. The Fair does not belong to the people or the city.

Thanks for the links. I don't live anywhere near that part of the state and have never been to the fair.

However, look at the links closely one finds that it is the CITY OF DALLAS that owns the fairgrounds and makes it available to a non-profit organization who conducts the fair. That makes it a different ballgame than a private business controling their own property.

[kauboy]

No one's arguing a private organization's right to control access. But, it's highly objectionable to involve the police in the process.

I don't believe that DPD demands to be notified of all CHLs wanting to enter, so that they can record IDs and guns carried. It's SFoT policy to require notification of DPD; not the other way around. When DPD records CHL info, it's clear that they're acting at the behest of Fair management.

I will say this: at least DPD are keeping to their LE role, and not acting as security. I can't abide blurring the line between LE and private security; a LEO cannot be simultaneously LEO and security: he must be one, or the other.

Kevin

I fully agree with you here, but this wasn't the point I was debating. I agree that Officers should not be used as security personnel. And as for the list of CHL holders, I don't believe it is of any use to the DPD. They have that information at their fingertips at all times, so its pointless to believe that it is for their benefit.

[kauboy]

Therefore, they can ask to search absolutely ANYTHING that you wish to bring onto their property. The Fair does not belong to the people or the city.

No one's arguing a private organization's right to control access. But, it's highly objectionable to involve the police in the process.

I would definitely argue their right to control access to city property:

Texas State Fair spurned offers from developers and sold its property to the City of Dallas in 1904 under an agreement that set aside a period each fall to hold the annual exposition.

The grounds may belong to the city, but the Fair does not. Therefore, whenever the Fair is in operation, the owners(of the Fair) control what comes in and goes out. This is an interesting legal issue though. Could you have conflict of interests between a private organization, and the owners of the land that they operate on? Who gets final say if the problem ever arises? If a bomb were smuggled in and set off, would the City be at fault, or the Fair owners? Who stands to face legal implications for failure to ensure a safe environment? Obviously some entitiy fears it, or we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. Very interesting! Research required...

Yeah, that is what I wrote. Glad to see you have learned from your errors and now agree with it.

I was not in error sir. It is simply common sense that nobody can overstep a federal or local law. With that, yes, a business can make a rule that CHL holders are not allowed on their premesis. They can, because the law affords them that option. (see 30.06 of the Penal Code)