Does your bank post a 30.06 sign ?

[Piney]

Greetings--

Just curious-- Does your bank post a 30.06 sign ?

Two banks whre I have accounts do not, but the one where I keep a SD box does *shrugs*

[KBCraig]

Hibernia improperly posts (ghostbuster, plus "no firearms on premises"). They insist that they don't mind LEOs with guns, and were completely clue-resistant when I tried educating them that armed, off-duty LEOs were barred by their signs, but CHLs weren't. I got the email equivalent of a blank stare and babble.

But, they insist that they're just "complying with state and federal law". They're based in Louisiana with locations in Texas and Arkansas; neither federal law, nor the laws of those three states restrict carrying firearms in a bank.

They're idjits, but they're the only decent option in town. I'll be rid of them in a couple of years when I move to New Hampshire.

Kevin

[jimlongley]

I banked at Community Credit Union when I first moved down here, they had an on site branch where I worked. It wasn't until we finally bought a house and moved in that we found out that they were posted, albeit improperly.

My wife talked me out of quitting "due to the convenience" but I eventually did anyway, and gave their sign as a reason. The manager that tried to "save" me as a customer made one of those idiotic statements about "the safety of the customers" which I responded to by telling her that she was only making it safe for the criminals who would know that they were unlikely to meet legally armed citizens in their bank, making it less likely that they would be interrupted in their criminal enterprise.

I gave her a card and left, and stopped to take measurements of the sign, which doesn't comply with the law, on the way out. Very ostentacious measurements.

[txinvestigator]

Hibernia improperly posts (ghostbuster, plus "no firearms on premises"). They insist that they don't mind LEOs with guns, and were completely clue-resistant when I tried educating them that armed, off-duty LEOs were barred by their signs, but CHLs weren't. I got the email equivalent of a blank stare and babble.

But, they insist that they're just "complying with state and federal law". They're based in Louisiana with locations in Texas and Arkansas; neither federal law, nor the laws of those three states restrict carrying firearms in a bank.

They're idjits, but they're the only decent option in town. I'll be rid of them in a couple of years when I move to New Hampshire.

Kevin

Points are well taken but how does the little sign prevent off duty LEO's from carrying there?

[KBCraig]

Points are well taken but how does the little sign prevent off duty LEO's from carrying there?

I vaguely recall discussion of exempting TCLEOSE Peace Officers from criminal trespass statutues regarding handguns. I haven't paid a lot of attention to that, since I, like about 3,000 of my colleagues in Texas, am a LEOSA-qualified LEO, but not a TCLEOSE Peace Officer.

If you'll recall, PC 30.06 was a response to worry over what constituted "sufficient notice" for criminal trespass. And, non-30.06 signs don't apply to CHLs, but could very well apply to everyone else, whether they're criminals, travelers, cops, or other non-cop LEOs.

I believe that Hibernia's "No Firearms Permitted On Premises" sign bars me from entering their lobby, even though a CHL could ignore it. No problem; I do my banking at the ATM or drive-through 99% of the time anyway.

As I said, I'd change banks if I was staying here, but we're bugging out for New Hampshire by Spring of 2008. It's not worth changing banks twice within 3 years.

Kevin

[dws1117]

We bank at Bank if America, where my wife works, and they are not posted. They did have a ghostbusters type sign up until I said something to my wife.

[MoJo]

I bank at Texas State Bank some of their branches are posted with 30.06 signs others aren't. I noticed one of the Beaumont branches that was posted no longer is. Maybe a change? :)

[stevie_d_64]

My credit union (JSC) on Dixie Farm Road down the way from Ellington Field is properly posted...

So anything I can do through the drive-through is about all I will do...

I keep the account only because it was setup by my dad when I was a kid, and that we use it to send money to each other via the internet as well...

I would think its still ok to be armed while going through the drive through...

[John]

Wells Fargo... Not Posted.

[RPBrown]

Kevin,
say it ain't so. Why on earth would you move to land of the snow?

[KBCraig]

Kevin,
say it ain't so. Why on earth would you move to land of the snow?

It's better than being 20 degrees one week, and then 78 the day after Christmas!

But if you really want the reasons why, check my signature.

Kevin

[anygunanywhere]

Never seen a Wells Fargo posted.

[txinvestigator]

Points are well taken but how does the little sign prevent off duty LEO's from carrying there?

I vaguely recall discussion of exempting TCLEOSE Peace Officers from criminal trespass statutues regarding handguns. I haven't paid a lot of attention to that, since I, like about 3,000 of my colleagues in Texas, am a LEOSA-qualified LEO, but not a TCLEOSE Peace Officer.

If you'll recall, PC 30.06 was a response to worry over what constituted "sufficient notice" for criminal trespass. And, non-30.06 signs don't apply to CHLs, but could very well apply to everyone else, whether they're criminals, travelers, cops, or other non-cop LEOs.

I believe that Hibernia's "No Firearms Permitted On Premises" sign bars me from entering their lobby, even though a CHL could ignore it. No problem; I do my banking at the ATM or drive-through 99% of the time anyway.

As I said, I'd change banks if I was staying here, but we're bugging out for New Hampshire by Spring of 2008. It's not worth changing banks twice within 3 years.

Kevin

Texas Penal Code


Text
§46.15. Nonapplicability.

(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:

(1) peace officers, including commissioned peace officers of
a recognized state, or special investigators under Article 2.122,
Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace
officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state,
including in an establishment in this state serving the public,
regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is
engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's
duties while carrying the weapon;

I get your point about 30.05, but after reading it I don't see how it could apply to an off-duty LEO entering a bank.

I don't remember your specific title, but are you one of the "special investigators" mentioned above?

Here is the list;


Text
(1) Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation;

(2) Special Agents of the Secret Service;

(3) Special Agents of the United States Customs Service;

(4) Special Agents of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms;

(5) Special Agents of Federal Drug Enforcement Agency;

(6) Inspectors of the United States Postal Service;

(7) Special Agents of the Criminal Investigation Division
and Inspectors of the Internal Security Division of the Internal
Revenue Service;

(8) Civilian Special Agents of the United States Naval
Investigative Service;

(9) Marshals and Deputy Marshals of the United States
Marshals Service;

(10) Special Agents of the United States Immigration and
Naturalization Service; and

(11) Special Agents of the United States Department of
State, Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

(b) A person designated as a special policeman by the Federal
Protective Services division of the General Services Administration
under 40 U.S.C. Section 318 or 318d is not a peace officer but has
the powers of arrest and search and seizure as to any offense under
the laws of this state.

(c) A customs inspector of the United States Customs Service
or a border patrolman or immigration officer of the United States
Department of Justice is not a peace officer under the laws of this
state but, on the premises of a port facility designated by the
commissioner of the United States Immigration and Naturalization
Service as a port of entry for arrival in the United States by land
transportation from the United Mexican States into the State of
Texas or at a permanent established border patrol traffic check point,
has the authority to detain a person pending transfer without
unnecessary delay to a peace officer if the inspector, patrolman, or
officer has probable cause to believe that the person has engaged in
conduct that is a violation of Section 49.02, 49.04, 49.07, or 49.08,
Penal Code, regardless of whether the violation may be disposed of in
a criminal proceeding or a juvenile justice proceeding.

(d) A commissioned law enforcement officer of the National
Park Service is not a peace officer under the laws of this state,
except that the officer has the powers of arrest, search, and seizure
as to any offense under the laws of this state committed within the
boundaries of a national park or national recreation area. In this
subsection, "national park or national recreation area" means a
national park or national recreation area included in the National
Park System as defined by 16 U.S.C. Section 1c(a).

(e) A Special Agent or Law Enforcement Officer of the
United States Forest Service is not a peace officer under the laws of
this state, except that the agent or officer has the powers of arrest,
search, and seizure as to any offense under the laws of this state
committed within the National Forest System. In this subsection,
"National Forest System" has the meaning assigned by 16 U.S.C.
Section 1609.

(f) Security personnel working at a commercial nuclear power
plant, including contract security personnel, trained and qualified
under a security plan approved by the United States Nuclear
Regulatory Commission, are not peace officers under the laws of this
state, except that such personnel have the powers of arrest, search,
and seizure, including the powers under Section 9.51, Penal Code,
while in the performance of their duties on the premises of a
commercial nuclear power plant site or under agreements entered into
with local law enforcement regarding areas surrounding the plant site.

[Texasdoc]

well in Smithville the lost pine bank is posted and the branch in Bastrop is not. I was told its up to the manager to post or not.


300shooter

[KBCraig]

I get your point about 30.05, but after reading it I don't see how it could apply to an off-duty LEO entering a bank.

How could it not?

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
( . . . )
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
( . . . )
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor at the time of the offense was a fire fighter or emergency medical services personnel, as that term is defined by Section 773.003, Health and Safety Code, acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty under exigent circumstances.
(d) An offense under Subsection (e) is a Class C misdemeanor
unless it is committed in a habitation or unless the actor carries a
deadly weapon on or about the actor's person during the commission
of the offense, in which event it is a Class A misdemeanor. An
offense under Subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, except that
the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if:
( . . . )
(2) the actor carries a deadly weapon on or about his person during the commission of the offense.
( . . . )
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and
(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

The defenses to prosecution under 30.05 are for "fire fighter or emergency medical services personnel ( . . . ) acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty under exigent circumstances", or CHLs. Now that I re-read that section, there's no exemption for LEOs even on-duty; I thought they were included with fire or EMS.

Unless there's code somewhere else exempting LEOs, if the signs meet the standard of "posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden", then a non-CHL who carries a handgun past a non-compliant sign commits a Class A misdemeanor.

I don't remember your specific title, but are you one of the "special investigators" mentioned above?

No, I work for the Bureau of Prisons. We have arrest authority under 18 USC 3050, but we're not listed as special agents, and we're not peace officers, so 46.02/46.03 would apply if not for LEOSA.

Kevin