I had to draw last week. Looking for input

[asleepatthereel]

Last week I was coming home from work on my motorcycle at about 0300 on a dark road where they are doing alot of roadwork. The speed limit on this road is 45, but changes to 35 at the city limits, and the local PD make a point of frequenting the area looking for speeders. So Im driving 45 and there is another vehicle about 30 yards behind me. When we got to the spot where it slows to 35, this vehicle gets very close to my bike, and flashes the high beams and lays on the horn. Thinking the person was driving was having a bad night or something, I pull as far to the right as I can. This is a two lane road that will eventually be a divided four lane. I pulled to the right thinking he would just go around me as we were the only two vehicles on the road. Instead, he gets closer and continues the flashing and horn blowing. I was about to just speed up when he started to go around me. When he got beside of me, he started to come over toward me forcing me to slow down. Before I knew it, he had pulled in front of me, and stopped forcing me to do the same. I dont remember drawing my Kimber, but when he exited the car, that was the first thing he saw. I do remember yelling at him to stop and get back in the vehicle. The way we were stopped, I could see inside the car from his dome light. The guy said something about me getting a faster motorcycle or something to that effect, got back in the car and litterally smoked the tires leaving. At this point, the adrenaline started flowing as I started to realize what had just transpired. I wasnt far from the police station, and started to go there to report the incident, then remembered they have a jail there and CHL holders are barred from entering. Having nowhere to safely store my .45, I pulled into a well lit parking lot and called them to have an officer come to me. The officer was very supportive, even though I didnt have any real info on the perp other than he was a well dressed white male in a large white foreign luxury car like a Lexus or BMW. The dispatcher asked that I unload the weapon before the officer arrived, so I did. He asked to see it and remarked that he had always wanted an Ultra Carry like mine. In all the experience with the officer went very well, and he even let me load the weapon back and reholster as he stood there. This is the first time I have ever had to draw my weapon on anyone, and I am very glad I didnt have to pull the trigger.
I do practice at home with snap caps drawing and turning off the safety. I think my Instructor called it 'muscle memory' or something to that effect, and I can ensure you that it does work. I had the weapon out safety off and ready to use had the need arisen.
I dont think the whole time from the time we stopped to the time he left was more than 15 seconds, but it seemed like an hour, so time seems to slow down too.
I do amit I briefly considered not reporting it, but then what would have happened if the perp had called the police and told them a crazy biker had just pulled a gun on him and he had my plate numbers. Besides, I have too much invested in my plastic to risk it.
OK, Im open to critique, so if anyone would have done the same or different in my situation, fill me in.

[Originalist]

My interpretation, you could have reasonably believed you life was in danger based on the actors aggression, I was involved in a similar situation (except i was driving my blazer and had my wife and kids in the car) and wished I had my gun. It involved me jumping the curb (as the road I tried to turn down was a dead end) and this guy throwing up gang signs parking across the road to block me in, luckily he was in a lowered cadillac and could not jump the curb like I did. I am a true believer....Carry 24/7 or guess right.

Good draw, I am thankful that you ended up alright and you did not need to use more force. Good Job

[asleepatthereel]

Yeah, I did tell the officer that I thought I was in danger, and I wasnt fibbing either. I didnt know what the guy wanted to do, but Im glad he saw the light.

[mrvmax]

Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.

[Excaliber]

Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.

Mrvmax has a valid question. If he exited the vehicle with empty hands and you accelerated around him, you could have put a lot of distance between you (at a speed somewhat above 35, but I think you could justify that) before he could have responded.

You didn't indicate what the distance was between you and the subject. I well understand your concern and you faced a difficult situation. Some would interpret your draw as premature if the subject had empty hands and did not utter a specific threat, and contend that you had an obligation to determine if he just wanted to verbally harass you for driving at the speed limit or if he intended to do you harm. If the was more than 15 feet I would suggest using a verbal challenge: "Stop there and state your business. If you advance you'll be treated as a threat to my safety." That would force him to make a decision and clarify his intentions (either verbally or by action) and would give you a stronger case for drawing if he continued to advance. If he was sober, it would also give him a clue that things were not likely to turn out well for him if he moved in on you.

[anygunanywhere]

Yes, asleep could have driven off and the jerk would have started chasing him, caused a collisioin, and killed him. The jerk had already assaulted him with a deadly weapon, his vehicle. Asleep had every right to draw his weapon because he was reponding to someone else's use of deadly force.

YMMV.

Anygunanywhere

[tallmike]

Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.

This guy had already shown he didnt care about Asleep's safety and when you are on a bike dealing with an angry car driver you are not safer trying to get away from him. If he catches you, or if you drive too fast in an attempt to make sure he cant catch you, the results would be far worse than just convincing him to drive away. I know I always try my best to make sure I am behind drivers like that, in front of them is a horrible place to be on a bike.

[LedJedi]

IANAL, but given the scenario you describe I believe you were justified in drawing.

Driving off in that scenario could have put you at even more risk had he decided to chase you down for some reason.

Allowing him to close the distance between you without a response from you would have been bad news. He had already firmly established his stance as the aggressor.

There are those that say that you should not draw your weapon until you're justified in shooting/using it. I think i've even said that in the past and believe in the general principle of that idea, but this is a good example of where DF wasn't CLEARLY justified but simple force (drawing the weapon) certainly was. Just goes to show that life isn't always black and white.

good job imo.

[russ]

Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.

Mrvmax has a valid question. If he exited the vehicle with empty hands and you accelerated around him, you could have put a lot of distance between you (at a speed somewhat above 35, but I think you could justify that) before he could have responded.

You didn't indicate what the distance was between you and the subject. I well understand your concern and you faced a difficult situation. Some would interpret your draw as premature if the subject had empty hands and did not utter a specific threat, and contend that you had an obligation to determine if he just wanted to verbally harass you for driving at the speed limit or if he intended to do you harm. If the was more than 15 feet I would suggest using a verbal challenge: "Stop there and state your business. If you advance you'll be treated as a threat to my safety." That would force him to make a decision and clarify his intentions (either verbally or by action) and would give you a stronger case for drawing if he continued to advance. If he was sober, it would also give him a clue that things were not likely to turn out well for him if he moved in on you.

You do not take chances with a car while on a motorcycle period, he did the right thing in this case. If he would have
tried to leave and just out run this guy trying to concentrate on whats in front of you with a car chasing you possibly at high speeds could be deadly if you are on a motorcycle. I know from experience and have the scars to proof it.

I agree I thing you may have been a little premature on drawing your weapon. But its hard to say in the heat of the moment. The main thing is you did not have to fire your weapon. You stopped what could have been a dangerous situation. You let him know right up front he was not going to win this battle.

[nitrogen]

Nobody got hurt, shot, or killed. You did good.

[KaiserB]

Yes, asleep could have driven off and the jerk would have started chasing him, caused a collision, and killed him. The jerk had already assaulted him with a deadly weapon, his vehicle. Asleep had every right to draw his weapon because he was responding to someone else's use of deadly force.

As my CHL instructor said "no one is psychic, you do not know what the other guy is thinking, he may want to kill you." "Draw, yell stop if unsure of the situation, shoot if necessary, call 911"

[txflyer]

I think asleep did just fine.

One thing I hope I would have done is to announce that I was armed. Given that it was a dark road, the BG may not have seen the gun, I wasn't sure based on the account.

I make the warning part of my practice - "gray muscle memory". My phrase is "STOP, I AM ARMED, YOU ARE THREATENING ME". I shout it so witnesses might hear it as well.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I think you did the right thing. As stated above he already threatened you with his car. It depends on the person wether or not they would be in fear for their life. I know I would have done the same thing as I would feared he would have tried to run me over. If you would have sped up to drive off you prolly would have just irritated him off and he would have just chased you down possibly causing injury or death. I think you were justified in drawing and I think you did the right thing. GOOD JOB! I am happy to hear it did not escalate. Way to keep your cool in the situation and kudos for calling the police that was a very good call.

[barres]

I think you did the right thing. Especially by calling the police. He who calls first usually wins.

I do have one small thing to correct, but it has no bearing on whether you did right or wrong. Jails are not statutorily off limits to CHL holders. Prisons are, but not jails. And Police Stations, if they are to disarm you, must provide storage, IIRC. Just for future reference, because I think calling was the wiser choice than riding there for time's sake.

[WarHawk-AVG]

Yes, asleep could have driven off and the jerk would have started chasing him, caused a collision, and killed him. The jerk had already assaulted him with a deadly weapon, his vehicle. Asleep had every right to draw his weapon because he was responding to someone else's use of deadly force.

As my CHL instructor said "no one is psychic, you do not know what the other guy is thinking, he may want to kill you." "Draw, yell stop if unsure of the situation, shoot if necessary, call 911"

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!!

Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy were met! In fact asleep could have dropped the guy and more than likely gotten off for the shooting (once the guy got out of his vehicle..he escalated the situation once again...the 1st was forcing asleep off the road)..his coolness under a dangerous situation and the fact he didn't shoot the guy shows a level of control and strength many of us need to have...

If someone pushed you off the road with their car your life and well being is not at the top priority on their list, when they exit their vehicle to confront you after pushing you off the road its obvious their mental condition is NOT conducive to a favorable outcome.