TexasCHLforum.com

We are trying to get good information as to why would-be CHL's have chosen not to apply. Please respond to the poll and post any comments. If the poll should have more options, let me know.

I don't know if the software will let someone vote more than once, but if it won't the poll will be useless. I suspect the information we'll get will be from members who talk to others and would be voting for them. Let me know if you can't vote more than once; then I'll delete the poll but keep the sticky.

Thanks,
Chas.

So far I talked to two people I know who are very interested in getting a CHL, but haven't yet jumped through all the hoops to get one.

They both said finding the time to take the class was their biggest problem. Both said breaking up the class into smaller blocks (1-2 hours) and spreading the course out over several weeks would be better for them. One suggested on-line classes (although obviously the shooting qual couldn't be done online)

Paladin wrote:One suggested on-line classes (although obviously the shooting qual couldn't be done online)

You know, I'm sure some people would balk at that idea but I don't think it's so bad at all. After all, you are being tested on material that's written. It seems the class can be distracting with a lot of knuckleheads asking crazy hypothetical situations and confusing people about what the law really is. I guess the major problem would be ensuring that somebody couldn't cheat because you know if they got their license and were later arrested for doing something bad then it would all come back down on the CHL program.

Of course like you said you'd have to sign up for a range qual to shoot but that would be much less time consuming than spending all day at a range/classroom.

It seems the class can be distracting with a lot of knuckleheads asking crazy hypothetical situations and confusing people about what the law really is. :) :)

What about the guy who thinks it's a hunting license for thieves. :x
There is alway one in the group.

Glenn

PS-I do not know how to do the quote-in-a-box thing, so I cut and pasted sort of.

G

Cost is what kept me out for so long.

I didn't vote in the poll since I have finally ponied up the cash and applied.

I've heard others say that taking the class was the problem as well. 10 hours is a big commitment for some folks.

Honestly, my class was pretty painful due to a few less than desirable people in it. Making stupid comments and asking rediculous questions. I could barely stand it. I was so glad when it was finally over so I didn't have to hear those guys anymore.

The instructors were great and I'm sure if a couple of folks hadn't been there I'd have enjoyed it.

The only "fun" I had was being the only one out of 12 that got a perfect score on the firing line and on the written test. :D

Time, money, motivation (not necessarily in that order). Getting them all 3 together at the same time is pretty tough for most folks.

I've currently got 2 students who still owe DCSA for cost of class(es). One is a 30-something Dad with 3 kids and another in the oven. Due to shortage of family money, he had alrready had to let his license expire when I told him to come on out and get it done with a class I had scheduled. He put DPS' portion on credit card and will get around to my part when he can ...

Another is a 30-something Mom going for original license - also with small kids. She assists her husband in a fairly new business that deals with lots of cash. She took a beginner course and CHL classroom portion last September. Having bought a gun to be able to practice some more before completing proficiency portion, I believe the family is likely pretty strapped for cash. With DPS' new rule that the TR-100s are only valid for 6-months :( , she's about to be up against the wall to come up with the $140 here in a few days ...

Regarding the "too many places one can't carry", I've had a number of students who had some real misconceptions there - until they took class - where they learned the facts about signage and reciprocity ...

Graybeard, The last information that I got on time limits for the TR100 was still 2 years for the first-timers and six months for renewals. I hope that hasn't changed, if not the Lady should have lots of time left.
Tom

I agree the initial cost may be prohibitive for some folks, but I am not
buying the idea that spending 8 to 10 hours on classroom and range
training is too much of a time-commitment.
Capital B, Capital S!

A license to carry a concealed handgun is not something to be
taken lightly. A person gets licensed to carry a concealed weapon
to be prepared for the possibility they may have to defend their self
with "deadly force". Anybody who is unwilling to spend 8 or 10
hours learning the basics of Texas law concerning the use of "deadly
force", and all the ramifications of it, should forget about packing a
gun.

And that IS my opinion.

Walter

ElGato - Thanks for heads-up. The mention of the 6-month limitation was in the instructor update package DPS mailed out in Jan. '05. I'll re-read it, but don't recall a distinction between originals and renewals ...

Walter - Well said!

Yep, the CHL money is a legitimate problem for many. But, by nature I see the majority of folks simply being natural procrastinators. For example, cost of Texas Hunter Education Course (which also requires a minimum of 10 hours) many places is only $10. It is so-called "mandatory" for any hunter born after Sept. 1, 1971. That law has been in effect since 1988 - 7 years priot to passage of our CHL provision.

I crunched some numbers a few weeks ago related to the typical "profile" of hunter ed. students at DCSA (where cost of class is typically $36.56) last season. 57% of our students were in the 17 to 34-year old bracket - and the "mandatory" language had not kept the vast majority of them from hunting (illegally) previously.

So, as I see it, whether it's CHL training, hunter ed., or defensive driving (which can appreciably decrease insurance rates) most folks just don't seem to "get around to it" without some serious external motivation.

orc4hire wrote: And there's a reason why alternatives to traditional defensive driving are so popular.

I took the defensive driving course online and it was OK, compared to sitting in a classroom with a bunch of derelicts.

I cannot imagine what alternative there could be to a chl class though.

It took 'em several years to get finalized, but in 1999 Texas Parks and Wildlife was the first in the country to make a "Home Study" option available for hunter education. Students must still come to a "testing site" for a minimum 4-hours of specified activities before certification. With some effort, I think a similar program could be easily developed for CHL classes.

But, having certified well over 2,000 students that way since the inception, I still believe there would be tens of thousands who would use the old "I don't have enough time" excuse. As implied before, allocation of time is usally a matter of personal motivation and priorities. It's absolutely amazing the number of folks who seem to be able to make the time for hunting trips, but can't seem to find a weekday evening or 1/2 day on a weekend to get legal before doing so.

ElGato - Marion at DPS just clarified the ambiguous paragraph in newsletter. The interpretation was as you stated: TR-100s still good for 2 years for "originals", but only 6 months for renewals.

Channel 4 in Dallas must have just recently received and decided to air DPS's press release about reciprocity with South Carolina. They've placed a map on the screen showing states that now recognize Texas CHL. Excellent PR for the CHL program! Maybe here in another week or three, the trickle-down effect will catch up to 'em about Pennsylvania. :D

orc4hire wrote:

Walter wrote:I agree the initial cost may be prohibitive for some folks, but I am not
buying the idea that spending 8 to 10 hours on classroom and range
training is too much of a time-commitment.
Capital B, Capital S!

A license to carry a concealed handgun is not something to be
taken lightly. A person gets licensed to carry a concealed weapon
to be prepared for the possibility they may have to defend their self
with "deadly force". Anybody who is unwilling to spend 8 or 10
hours learning the basics of Texas law concerning the use of "deadly
force", and all the ramifications of it, should forget about packing a
gun.

And that IS my opinion.

Walter

Sorry Walter, I have to call bull on your bull. I have my CHL now, but the reason I didn't for a few years after the law went into effect wasn't the money. It was the time. I know a few people who would like to get a CHL, but the problem is finding that much time. For a lot of people 8-10 hours is a lot harder to find than 140 bucks.

Reducing the price might help some, but making the classroom time easier to schedule is the real sticking point.

And let's be honest here; it's not like that 8 to 10 hours is taken up in learning exciting stuff, or valuable range training. It's moderately more interesting than defensive driving class, but that's about it. And there's a reason why alternatives to traditional defensive driving are so popular.

And I'm calling bull on your bull. It was the money for me. I've heard all to many times people say "I don't have the time" when they really meant "I don't want to take the time". It's only one day out of four years, and you don't have the time? Most people don't want to do it because as you said they don't want to be bored to death for ten hours. Has nothing to do with not having the time. And yes it's just as boring as defensive driving.
I say put the course on a website and you get a printout verifiying you passed the test. Then you take that printout to a CHL instructor which gives you the 10 minute shooting test and your done. It took me two day's to get over my sore butt from sitting in that steel chair for 10 hours so I do have a bone to pick.