Can I use force if..

[skankpile]

I've been reading through the TX CHL code.. and I'm thinking that Texas law really rocks.

Say I get mugged on the street, and the perp runs away with my wallet (he may have a gun, knife, or nothing).. . basically if he is leaving with my property in I'm able to use deadly force to prevent the theft regardless of value.

Or, say I'm eating in a restaurant an a group of skinz comes in and starts harassing me and mine spewing threats... I think, I may use deadly force because I would be considered cornered, and if a perp touches me or mine and I draw and fire on the perp... I wonder if that still falls under:

"officer, they gave me no choice as to weather the use of deadly force was necessary to stop the immediate and imminent threat to my and my families life..."

I know that sounds harsh, but I've had my cars, and house broken into (it turned out to be my thug neighbor and his friends).. and I'm tired of buying the same things over again. My family has even been subject to a peeping-tom... I live in a better place now, but a lot of it stopped when I started mowing the lawn with my .45 on my side.

[pt145ss]

INAL...but here are a few things

I've been reading through the TX CHL code.. and I'm thinking that Texas law really rocks.

Say I get mugged on the street, and the perp runs away with my wallet (he may have a gun, knife, or nothing).. . basically if he is leaving with my property in I'm able to use deadly force to prevent the theft regardless of value.

I think you might be able to use reasonable force up to and including Deadly Force while in fresh pursuit of the BG…if the circumstances prove that you are in imminent danger of serious bodily injury AND there are no other means of getting the items back that were stolen.

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.


Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Or, say I'm eating in a restaurant an a group of skinz comes in and starts harassing me and mine spewing threats... I think, I may use deadly force because I would be considered cornered, and if a perp touches me or mine and I draw and fire on the perp... I wonder if that still falls under:

"officer, they gave me no choice as to weather the use of deadly force was necessary to stop the immediate and imminent threat to my and my families life..."

I think it takes more than verbal provocation.

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;

[Purplehood]

I smell something rotten in Denmark.

[pt145ss]

I smell something rotten in Denmark.

I thought the same thing.

[Keith B]

I smell something rotten in Denmark.

I thought the same thing.

Man, you guys must have really sensitive noses if you can smell something THAT far away from Texas!!!

[Lumberjack98]

Uh....I'm surprised there wasn't a mall ninja reference in the questions. Or did I miss it?

[Purplehood]

Uh....I'm surprised there wasn't a mall ninja reference in the questions. Or did I miss it?

Maybe somebodies X-Box cut-out while posting.

[bdickens]

*sniff* *sniff* Yeah, y'all are right. Something doesn't smell quite right.

The OP sounds a bit ... umm... uh... I think "unstable" is the word I'm looking for.

Don't feed the trolls.

[nils]

In my case, I think that verbal provocation may be enough to defend myself with my sidearm. I was diagnosed with multiple brain tumors 6 months ago, the my neurologist told me that any kind of punch/kick/minor or major impact to my head could kill me. So, if a group of bad guys corners me, threatens to kick my butt, etc., I would take that as a threat to my life. I'm not saying that I would fire all 8 at the perp or even fire at all, but I wouldn't be afraid to draw and fire if I felt the threat was real. Every situation is different, and bad guys usually don't know the "victim's" medical history. That is their misfortune.

[longtooth]

*sniff* *sniff* Yeah, y'all are right. Something doesn't smell quite right.

The OP sounds a bit ... umm... uh... I think "unstable" is the word I'm looking for.

Don't feed the trolls.

Excellent advice from an old hand. Young & old should heed it.

[tboesche]

I always thought trolls asked 3 questions before you could cross the bridge?????

[skankpile]

No trolling.. I don’t own an M16 or AK-47 with oodles of magazines waiting for "the day". I'm far reserved from those guys at the gun shows who show up in their cammo…

I'm just reading the law and throwing out hypothetical’s. I recently moved back to Texas in 2007 and it seems the laws have changed somewhat in the favor of the citizens.

I'm posting and reading here because recently my 82 yr old granddad had somebody break in his house, tie him up to a chair and ramsack his valuables. So.. I'm getting my CHL again now that I'm back in TX, and reading all I can on the subject. As for my granddad, The authorities made a report and the insurance paid about 1% of the valuables... so I don't believe that there are any 'other' methods to retrieve your stolen property because once it leaves its gone. Is a wallet worth a life, nope... but the perps ought to take note that with the rising crime/invasions here recently, recent gun sales soaring, and chl aplications higher than ever before... its a bad time for those with a pension for larceny and assault.

[Purplehood]

I apologize. You came across really, really strangely in your original post. Your handle threw me off, also.

[longtooth]