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Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:45 pm
by LCP_Dogg
When you cannot retreat and he comes up on you, THEN I would shoot him.
Otherwise I would use my fists or continue to retreat. Not worth risking all you have for some hobo.
Then again, how do you know it's a hobo and not some gang-banger trying to get into a shiny new gang? What if he is armed and is just messing with you as part of the initiation (before he attempts to armed rob you)..
So I would probably have my gun drawn this whole time while retreating (that is how I pictured it anyways)...
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:15 pm
by nils
I would fill him full of lead....nah, just kidding, but I would certainly consider firing. It doesn't matter what size he is either, or that he's using his fists...things change pretty quickly in a fight and fists can turn into knives, etc.....and as far as size is concerned, tell that to all of the huge guys that Royce Gracie destroyed....
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:25 pm
by jiannichan
I would shoot if the person doesn't stop. A punch can be a deadly if you're hit in the right spot. I'm not willing to take that chance.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:28 pm
by boomerang
I think running away from crazy guy after hosing him with OC is the best solution.
The dynamics of crazy are different than the criminal dynamics and I think that means different tactics. I think I can outrun a guy with a face full of OC but if he chases me down and catches me then it's no longer a simple assault and I will use deadly force to protect myself.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:46 pm
by ewhite
I am sorry officer I was in fear for my life because his breath was going to kill me...
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:07 pm
by Morgan
You don't have to let him hit you. the human body is pretty resilient, but 1 strike can cause you to lose your ability to further defend yourself or fire. Ergo... you do not need to be assaulted with a weapon for your life to be threatened. Ask a coroner how many bodies they've seen that were beaten to death with no weapons.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:25 pm
by flintknapper
Russell wrote:I was reading the deadly force statutes, because you know, when you're bored you read the law, right?
Anyway, consider this scenario. You are carrying your brain, your fists, your pepper spray, your handgun, and you are walking down a sidewalk. A drugged out hobo begins to attack you because apparently according to his drugged out hobo brain you look like Satan. The guy is really wacked out, but he
has no weapons other than his fists.
He's swinging at you, and you pepper spray him. He's slowed down but not down for the count. You keep trying to retreat but he keeps following you and trying to attack you. You don't want to get into a fist fight with this guy, so what do you do?
PC 9.32 does not seem to give you the authority to open fire to stop this guy from hitting you. I know according to the new stand-your-ground law you actually don't have to retreat to begin with, but is a hobo's fists considered unlawful deadly force, even if the guy is roughly the same size and build as you? (IE, no protection under disparity of force).
You can't keep retreating forever.
(Circumstance permitting) dial 911...continue to retreat. Look for something that you can put between him and yourself.
Use strong verbal commands (that can be heard by 911 operator). If the attack continues...advise the attacker that you are armed and will defend yourself if they do not immediately cease their attack.
Proceed as necessary thereafter.
Always use deadly force last (but not too late). I would prefer to threaten deadly force...than have to use it, but some people (when chemically enhanced) will not be deterred.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:52 pm
by Oldgringo
The last time a similar scenario was posed, I suggested a warning shot into the air and everyone went primate feces (10 year daughter rule). I still think a warning shot is appropriate (if no one gets shot in the process) because:
* it tells the crackhead
that you are armed and dangerous;
* someone will/should hear it and call the police if you're in a metropolitan area; and,
* it will show the LEO's AND the court
that you tried to stop the assault and asked for assistance,
before you blasted
the worthless scumbag cretin into smithereens.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:05 pm
by AggieC05
Oldgringo wrote:The last time a similar scenario was posed, I suggested a warning shot into the air and everyone went primate feces (10 year daughter rule). I still think a warning shot is appropriate (if no one gets shot in the process) because:
* it tells the crackhead
that you are armed and dangerous;
* someone will/should hear it and call the police if you're in a metropolitan area; and,
* it will show the LEO's AND the court
that you tried to stop the assault and asked for assistance,
before you blasted
the worthless scumbag cretin into smithereens.
i hope you have a blank as your first round because the old adage of what goes up must come down...
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:07 pm
by WarHawk-AVG
If you fear for your life
Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy
If those are met then you are "legal" to fire..however drugged out, schitzo, or just plain nutz people can kill you just like anyone else
I guess if you exhausted ALL methods to stop him (including trying to retreat) and still the guy kept coming...you would have to up your defence...
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:16 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Oldgringo wrote:The last time a similar scenario was posed, I suggested a warning shot into the air and everyone went primate feces (10 year daughter rule). I still think a warning shot is appropriate (if no one gets shot in the process) because:
* it tells the crackhead
that you are armed and dangerous;
* someone will/should hear it and call the police if you're in a metropolitan area; and,
* it will show the LEO's AND the court
that you tried to stop the assault and asked for assistance,
before you blasted
the worthless scumbag cretin into smithereens.
How about firing that warning shot into his groin?
Sorry. Just kidding. I think that my reaction might be less temperate than others'. I recognize the moral imperative to try to evade the attack first, and I would make an attempt to extricate myself from the situation; but that being said, my own mobility is already restricted. I have enough metal in my spine that getting too physical (more than a couple of pushes or attempted strikes) is out of the question. If I cannot
quickly evade, and the attack persists, I'm going to shoot. I'm not going to let it drag out. I can't afford to.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:18 pm
by Oldgringo
AggieC05 wrote:Oldgringo wrote:The last time a similar scenario was posed, I suggested a warning shot into the air and everyone went primate feces (10 year daughter rule). I still think a warning shot is appropriate (if no one gets shot in the process) because:
* it tells the crackhead
that you are armed and dangerous;
* someone will/should hear it and call the police if you're in a metropolitan area; and,
* it will show the LEO's AND the court
that you tried to stop the assault and asked for assistance,
before you blasted
the worthless scumbag cretin into smithereens.
i hope you have a blank as your first round because the old adage of what goes up must come down...
Yepper, I was waiting for that...again.
A warning shot doesn't have to be fired into the air. It can be fired into the ground, a tree, a leg, a trash can, a flower pot or vertically into the sidewalk, whatever is available - except an innocent bystander. The actor is trying to avert a deadly force situation. If it can't be averted,
.
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:53 pm
by bdickens
Arrrrgghhh! No! Not the warning shot! Could we put that to bed already?
Re: Drugged out person. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:01 pm
by mr.72
bdickens wrote: Arrrrgghhh! No! Not the warning shot! Could we put that to bed already?
LoL. I doubt it.