CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper. *update*

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CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper. *update*

#1

Post by TexasComputerDude »

I just thought I would post an article that I found in the SFA newspaper.

the link is http://media.www.thepinelog.com/media/s ... 5267.shtml
Do guns on campus make us safer?
By: Julianna Backer
Issue date: 3/2/09 Section: Opinion

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When I first heard about the idea of allowing concealed carry on campus, my immediate reaction was shock and horror. For those of you who may not know, concealed carry is the ability to carry a gun concealed on one's person. The idea of SFA suddenly becoming a campus full of gun-toting students is a little discomforting.

But every story has two sides. After all, if one of the students in the Virginia Tech massacre had been carrying a gun, perhaps the massacre would have been prevented. Or perhaps not. The simple fact of the matter is that someone carrying a gun may be too paralyzed to use it.

But the people who are going to commit acts like the Virginia Tech massacre don't worry about permits and laws. When you've made up your mind to kill as many people as possible, it stops mattering whether the gun you're carrying is legal or not.

A tragedy like Virginia Tech could happen anywhere, but is that risk high enough to allow students to carry guns on campus, thereby risking more accidents? There is a long and involved background check for anyone who wants to get a gun, one that might hopefully eliminate things like mental instability or previous criminal history.

But background checks can't eliminate certain things. They can't eliminate the effects of someone drinking heavily and losing some of their inhibitions. They can't eliminate anger over things like infidelity.

SFA is, relatively, a safe campus. According to the Campus Crime Statistics, no SFA students have been murdered here in five years. Violence is rare here. Does it discourage or encourage students to tell them that they can bring guns on campus? By allowing them that freedom, are we making them feel more safe or less safe? Would it reduce or increase our crime statistics? These are questions almost wholly without answers, and unless such a program is enacted, we'll probably never know. But the simple question is, is there a pressing need?

There is already a national group called Students For Concealed Carry On Campus that is trying to promote the issue to legislators and Congress. From an interview with Newsweek:

"There are currently 11 U.S. universities that have for a combined total of 60 semesters allowed concealed carry on campus without an incident. You haven't seen an incident of gun violence, an incident of gun theft, no gun accidents," said W. Scott Lewis, a board member for the group.

What it comes down to is that we simply don't have the resources to stop kids bringing guns on campus. After all, there are no metal detectors at SFA. There are no random searches. Students are allowed to come and go freely every day. It is currently not allowed at SFA, and there is no expectation that this will change any time soon. Still, the question has been raised and the issue should be given due consideration by every SFA student. Is there a compelling reason to allow guns on campus? Would it make us all safer or more at risk?
I might see if I can get my own opinion piece in the newspaper because even though the author was fairly objective she did not point out that a license is required and that a student has to be over 21 unless in the military. I just don't know if I can write well enough. Maybe I will write a quick essay and post it here for yall to critique before sending it in. idk.
Last edited by TexasComputerDude on Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lumberjack98
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Re: CHL in my SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#2

Post by Lumberjack98 »

I read this yesterday and posted a comment specifically addressing what it takes to obtain a CHL in Texas. The author makes it sound like just anyone would be able to legally carry. They have not posted my comment yet. I suspect that they have had a lot of comments by this point. I hope that they will post them.

I may need to give Baker a call.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#3

Post by TexasComputerDude »

I was just about to post the same thing, but I may also try and submit it to the school newspaper.


how are your "liberal art" skills, lol. I'm a business/CIS/maybe CS major and am horrible at writing intelligently.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#4

Post by Glocktex »

Being a lumberjack myself I was hoping to finally read a pro-carry article in a student newspaper.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#5

Post by TexasComputerDude »

I wonder if a pro-RKBA/CC would be allowed into the school newspaper.

I bet I would have to print some articles up and put them on the floor next to the newspaper stands.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#6

Post by Lumberjack98 »

Well, I was an accounting major, so my skills are probably on par with yours.

However, I'm pretty good at finding information and copying and pasting. ;-)
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#7

Post by TexasComputerDude »

Lumberjack98 wrote:....

However, I'm pretty good at finding information and copying and pasting. ;-)

Great minds think alike.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#8

Post by smyrna »

I will say that for a school newspaper, this piece seems about as unbiased as it gets. The author does approach the argument from both sides and bouncing from one extreme to the other.
TexasComputerDude wrote: I might see if I can get my own opinion piece in the newspaper because even though the author was fairly objective she did not point out that a license is required and that a student has to be over 21 unless in the military. I just don't know if I can write well enough. Maybe I will write a quick essay and post it here for yall to critique before sending it in. idk.
Let me see if I can help get you started...
Let's look at her arguments against carry for what they really are.
When I first heard about the idea of allowing concealed carry on campus, my immediate reaction was shock and horror....The idea of SFA suddenly becoming a campus full of gun-toting students is a little discomforting.
This is not really a logical argument at all because it has no basis in fact but in fear. I wonder if Julianna reacts with shock and horror at the local Wal Mart where concealed carry IS not restricted. I doubt it, because she is not even aware of someone with a CHL because concealed menas concealed. She could have been the nice young lady that waited on my family at the Pizza Hut across from the campus, the whole time unaware that "papa bear" was packing. And, the idea that SFA would become a capus full of gun-toting students is not likely either. Given the distribution of CHLer's among the general populations is only what...1-2%, I suspect that the distribution among SFA's campus would NOT differ significantly, hardly what I would refer to as "full of gun-toting students."

After all, if one of the students in the Virginia Tech massacre had been carrying a gun, perhaps the massacre would have been prevented. Or perhaps not. The simple fact of the matter is that someone carrying a gun may be too paralyzed to use it.
This could be the case, but again this argument is pure speculation. We simply don't know what would have happened at VT, but we do know that students and faculty at most colleges/universities aren't not allowed to practice self-defense with a firearm. What they are allowed is the opportunity to sit in a gun restricted zone every day while criminals are afforded a target rich environment to conduct calculated and unchallenged homicide until they either commit suicide or law enforcement arrive. A good counter argument to this speculation is the case of Jeanne Assam and the Colorado Church shooting.
A tragedy like Virginia Tech could happen anywhere, but is that risk high enough to allow students to carry guns on campus, thereby risking more accidents?
Practicing self-defense should NEVER be about a "risk being high enough". It is a God given right not meant to be regulated by man. Here's a counter to this argument. I would say that most of probably drive with a seat belt either out of obedience to the law or common sense. I have literally driven thousands of miles since I was 16, and without fail buckle up each time I get behind the wheel. But, it's not because I think the "risk is high enough" that I will have an accident that day. It is because the likelihood of my survival without it diminshes greatly WITHOUT it. Likewise, in a school shooting scenario, denying someone the ability to match force with force and defend himself diminshes his likelihood of survival.
SFA is, relatively, a safe campus.
Oh yeah, by what standard? I'm sure people at VT thought the same of its campus prior to Cho's rampage.
What it comes down to is that we simply don't have the resources to stop kids bringing guns on campus. After all, there are no metal detectors at SFA. There are no random searches. Students are allowed to come and go freely every day. It is currently not allowed at SFA, and there is no expectation that this will change any time soon.... Is there a compelling reason to allow guns on campus?
Exactly! So are you so naive to think that there are NO guns on your campus...ever? Only the law abiding honor the law, not the Cho's, Klebold's, Harris' and others bent on destruction.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#9

Post by TexasComputerDude »

thats some good stuff.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#10

Post by srothstein »

My whole answer would be based on a single question - the last question in the article. "Is there a compelling reason to allow guns on campus?"

Given that there is no way to stop it for criminals, and given that the schools that do allow it show a perfect safety record, and given that it may or may not help prevent a tragedy, is there a compelling reason to ban guns on campus? Infringing on people's rights should always be the compelling reason, not permitting them. And SCOTUS does say that self-defense is a personal right.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#11

Post by Liberty »

srothstein wrote:My whole answer would be based on a single question - the last question in the article. "Is there a compelling reason to allow guns on campus?"

Given that there is no way to stop it for criminals, and given that the schools that do allow it show a perfect safety record, and given that it may or may not help prevent a tragedy, is there a compelling reason to ban guns on campus? Infringing on people's rights should always be the compelling reason, not permitting them. And SCOTUS does say that self-defense is a personal right.
One of the problems I have with this debate is that it is often framed simply in the event of Virginia Tech. While protecting folks from a suicidal madman. The most important reason to allow legal carry is that students are vulnerable to the everyday crimes of car jacking , robbery rape and murder. They need to protect oneself from these things is more likely than a VT experience.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#12

Post by barres »

Liberty wrote:
srothstein wrote:My whole answer would be based on a single question - the last question in the article. "Is there a compelling reason to allow guns on campus?"

Given that there is no way to stop it for criminals, and given that the schools that do allow it show a perfect safety record, and given that it may or may not help prevent a tragedy, is there a compelling reason to ban guns on campus? Infringing on people's rights should always be the compelling reason, not permitting them. And SCOTUS does say that self-defense is a personal right.
One of the problems I have with this debate is that it is often framed simply in the event of Virginia Tech. While protecting folks from a suicidal madman. The most important reason to allow legal carry is that students are vulnerable to the everyday crimes of car jacking , robbery rape and murder. They need to protect oneself from these things is more likely than a VT experience.
Exactly. When my wife and I were in college and dating, there were two rapes that occurred on our campus in one school year. I never heard of anyone being caught, much less convicted, of either. It doesn't take much of a brain to determine that, if those rape victims could have been legally armed with a handgun while on campus, their assailant(s) wouldn't have successfully committed those crimes. As it was, I was forced to buy my wife (GF at the time) the only SD tool she could legally have with her on campus: pepper spray.

Campus carry isn't about preventing the next VT-type massacre, although it may very well do just that. Campus carry is about giving CHL holders who work or study at colleges and universities the same rights and abilities to defend themselves from every type of crime and criminal there is that they have everywhere off of campus. We're not trying to arm every student in Texas. We're just trying to stop the disarming of those students who have already proven themselves trustworthy with handguns.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper.

#13

Post by TexasComputerDude »

I'm working on this as a reply, maybe as a "letter to the editor"

what do yall think? What should I add or remove? I have to keep it under 300 words and I'm running at about 390 so I've got to cut it down some.
To be eligible to receive a Concealed Handgun License in Texas one must be over 21 years of age (unless in the military) and have an extremely clean record. There can be no felonies at all or any class A or B misdemeanors at least five years prior to applying. A difficult safety and marksmanship test must also be passed. Many people can not meet these requirements and many more don’t want a CHL. This means that an extremely small minority on campus will have a license.

Texans who conceal carry are generally some of the more responsible members of our society. For instance, male Texans over 21 are “7.7 times more likely to be arrested for the violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery, and assault than the average male CHL holder” and 18 times more likely to be arrested for committing nonviolent crimes. (txchia.org) When campus concealed carry is allowed we will be no less safe than we were before and there will be no evidence of guns on campus. Concealed means Concealed. I’m sure most of our student body leaves campus at some point in their college career. Chances are if they have ever walked into a Wal-Mart, they have been near someone with a CHL without knowing it. Did they feel any less safe?

A CHL holder is still criminally and financially liable for his or her actions so they have to be very careful to follow the law and keep a cool head on their shoulders at all times. They are taught not to seek out trouble and that they aren’t a hero. A CHL is for immediate defense only and should a Virginia Tech type situation happen during class a CHL holder would follow the professor’s orders, and lock and barricade the door to the classroom. Should the unfortunate happen and direct and immediate threats to their life exist, then and only then, would they act to stop the threat.
Last edited by TexasComputerDude on Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper. *update*

#14

Post by Taxman »

JMHO but you might want to include the source for your stats in your opinion piece. I like Lumberjack98 majored in Accounting during my time there, so take it for what its worth. If you have problems getting the PineLog to put it in there, pm me and I will give you some contacts that might help.
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Re: CHL in the SFA's PineLog newspaper. *update*

#15

Post by TexasComputerDude »

well I want to cite some sources, but I only have 300 words and can't make them fit.

I need to look up how to cite sources in a newspaper as I've only ever done english and history papers.
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