Economy: Emergent problems for CHL holders

[Frost]

Stores will hire more security to help combat shoplifting. It is possible that one of these individuals would notice a bulge or a print and challenge a CHL holder. This type of situation could easily escalate with poorly trained or inexperienced "security."

[will381796]

I think that this is much less of a problem than you think. Really, any bulge you have could explained as being a phone or a pocket knife or a PDA or a notepad or a keychain. They can't search everyone with stuff in their pockets. They can't force you to empty your pockets. They cannot detain you and prevent you from leaving the store. So where's the issue?

[Houston1944]

I don't see it as a problem for me. Even though I really don't like having to show the receipt, on the rare occassions I am ask, I offer it with a smile on my face and just shrug it off and forget about it. Having to show a receipt is just not a battle I find worth fighting, after all I am in their "house".

[Frost]

They can't force you to empty your pockets. They cannot detain you and prevent you from leaving the store. So where's the issue?

The issue is that some of them might think that they can. Note the links in the last sentence of my post.

I don't see it as a problem for me. Even though I really don't like having to show the receipt, on the rare occassions I am ask, I offer it with a smile on my face and just shrug it off and forget about it.

I know the links i provided deal with receipt checking, but i am concerned that one of these individuals might decide that the bulge from my XDM looks suspicious and he needs to see it.

[NcongruNt]

I see this as a non-issue, just as others have stated. If some store security guard wants to inspect my "bulge", he can ask me to leave or call the police and articulate a valid reason why they should actually show up and search me.

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it. I simply walk by and say "no thanks" when asked. They can call the cops if they want to, but I doubt the cops will be very receptive to a call where no crime has been witnessed. IF they were to try and force me to stay, I will call the cops myself and file assault charges.

[Frost]

I see this as a non-issue, just as others have stated. If some store security guard wants to inspect my "bulge", he can ask me to leave or call the police and articulate a valid reason why they should actually show up and search me.

Or they could be verbally abusive and prevent you from leaving.

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it. I simply walk by and say "no thanks" when asked. They can call the cops if they want to, but I doubt the cops will be very receptive to a call where no crime has been witnessed. IF they were to try and force me to stay, I will call the cops myself and file assault charges.

From my first link:

A security guard demanded that I show him my receipt, which I respectfully declined with a "No Thanks" and continued walking... None of them budged, and the store manager began verbally abusing and slandering me... I then asked the officer to arrest the security guard for unlawful restraint, which she refused to do...

[will381796]

I'm sorry but they simply cannot prevent you from leaving. They cannot touch you or block your exit. If they block your exit from the building then they can be charged with illegal detainment.

If what you posted happened, it is a very rare occurrence and they should have been charged.

I just don't see this having any more of an impact on CHL holders specifically compared to the average joe walking around with pockets full of crap.

[Frost]

If what you posted happened, it is a very rare occurrence and they should have been charged.

It has been rare, but they way things are going it could happen more often.

Walmart Steals Your Cart Because You Won't Let Them Check Your Receipt
*removed for language*
Washington D.C. Police Say Its OK For Off-Duty Cops To Detain You For Not Showing Receipt
Wal-Mart Reports You To The Police For Not Allowing Them To Check Your Receipt
Wal-Mart & Local Police Detain Man, Threaten Arrest Over 4 Bags Of Sugar
Circuit City Customer Arrested After Refusing To Show Receipt
Adventures In Receipt Check Refusals Continue

I just don't see this having any more of an impact on CHL holders specifically compared to the average joe walking around with pockets full of crap.

True, but the stakes are a bit lower for that guy and he is less likely to know his rights and assert them.

[NcongruNt]

I see this as a non-issue, just as others have stated. If some store security guard wants to inspect my "bulge", he can ask me to leave or call the police and articulate a valid reason why they should actually show up and search me.

Or they could be verbally abusive and prevent you from leaving.

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it. I simply walk by and say "no thanks" when asked. They can call the cops if they want to, but I doubt the cops will be very receptive to a call where no crime has been witnessed. IF they were to try and force me to stay, I will call the cops myself and file assault charges.

From my first link:

A security guard demanded that I show him my receipt, which I respectfully declined with a "No Thanks" and continued walking... None of them budged, and the store manager began verbally abusing and slandering me... I then asked the officer to arrest the security guard for unlawful restraint, which she refused to do...

My guess is that assault is defined differently in Illinois than it is here. Assault is quite simple and clear-cut here. It is a simple action, and a report by the police would be evidence that easily backs up the claim. Now, the story you reference has to do with unlawful restraint - a charge that is nowhere near as simple as assault.

The rest of your response above is already addressed by my previous comments. The cops will come, and regardless of what happens - I'm walking away without submitting because they have no right to require it.

[LaUser]

As far as showing a receipt, I don't play that game. What I have purchased is my property. They have no right to inspect it.

Then don't go to Fry's. They inspect everything against the receipt.

[stevie_d_64]

Sure is a tough situation to be in...Seeings how you went to a private business, purchased goods or services from them, and they have the nerve to not trust you on the way out of their establishment...

Anyone who has worked in Loss Prevention knows this is the fine edge you walk on at this point in the game...I have not, but I've seen what they have to do in addition to be the only people in most retail establishments that could remotely step in and try to assess a situation...And granted some are not the sharpest bowling balls in the bag that get those jobs...And they have short triggers when they are questioned...

Not sure what the ideal position is on this other than it is different with each place you go to to do business...

The only thing I can imagine that you should do, armed or not, is absolutely be cooler than school when you speak up against the crimes they commit against you...They touch you, grab you by the arm, say anything to bolster their position needs to be observed by someone who is willing to stick around and wait for Law Enforcement to show up...

See, this is basically a line that you draw in the sand, and one that you must know is going to take up some time in your day to resolve if you really want to make that point...

Obviously if you refuse to show them your receipt, you are challenging them regardless if you believe you are right, and they are wrong for holding you up to see that piece of paper...

Be prepared for no one to be on your side on this either, not even family or a spouse if they are with you at the time...No one will understand or help you justify your position when you make your stand...

Like I said, when and if you do, you had better be very calm, collected and be prepared for a ton of scrutiny before you are "free" to go...

Even though I say this like I am being critical of the stand some people take, or believe they are prepared to take, I do support challenges to this because I believe too many people are willing to give up their personal rights, freedom and liberties, just because others cave to this oppressive activity...

Just remember most people work for a living, and in this day and age, jobs are worth keeping if you are told to do something like this...If you retaliate against someone grabbing you, keeping you from leaving (detainment) and you react, and injure that person, that is almost as bad as pulling your gun and stopping them in that way...You are going to be around there for a while till the law shows up to sort it all out, and its like being in a football game...The ref will never see the original foul, but they will see and penalize you for your reaction, regardless if it was justified or not...

The cooler you are, the better...And folks, we are nowhere near needing to make a stand like this just yet...

Just my opinion...

[Mike1951]

Back when I had more energy to test such policies, before leaving the register, I would ask the cashier to have the manager meet me and walk me out.

I would then tell them that they either don't trust me or the cashier. If it's the cashier, he should fire her. If it's me, I won't return.

But I made it clear that once I left the checkout, no one was stopping me.

This was just to make a point as doing it did not endear me to the folks in line behind me.

These days, it plays out this way: "I need to see your receipt." "No, you don't"

[Oldgringo]

will381796 wrote:

I just don't see this having any more of an impact on CHL holders specifically compared to the average joe walking around with pockets full of crap.

Sir/Madam: Are you quite sure you want me to empty my colostomy bag here?

[ninemm]

A friend told me of an experience he had at the Home Depot on Lemmon in Dallas a while back (just before Christmas 2008). He bought a $300 kitchen faucet and as he exited the store the alarm went off. He turned back toward the checkout so as to resolve the issue and a woman (who he assumed was either the head cashier or manager on duty) came up to him. He showed her the receipt and bag but she really didn't look at it. Instead, she apologized, handed him a small envelope and motioned for him to go ahead and exit. He figured the envelope was a coupon or survey. But when he opened it, he found a $20 gift card in a specially prepared apology card that specifically addressed the type of incident that had just occurred. I have since learned that this is/was a store specific policy/experiment. The manager at my local Home Depot said he had heard of it at a district meeting but that it was too difficult a policy to administer fairly at his store.