Carrying at work

[MojoTexas]

I know this has been discussed several times in the past, and I have read the other threads, but I still have a question...

My employer prohibits weapons as part of company policy, but does not post 30.06 signs. Therefore, if I did choose to violate company policy and carry anyway, the only consequence if I were discovered would be termination, right? I wouldn't be breaking any laws per se...I would just risk losing my job if discovered.

I'm just wondering what the ramifications would be, should I hypothetically choose to start discreetly carrying at work.

If I were truly carrying concealed, nobody would ever need to know unless there was an "incident" where I needed to defend myself, in which case it would be worth the risk to have it. I'd rather be alive and unemployed than dead.

However, I definitely don't want to break the law, and wouldn't want to risk losing my CHL, which is what would happen with an "unlawful carry" arrest.

Any feedback? Do I understand the situation correctly?

Thanks,
MojoTexas

[G26ster]

I don't agree you are not breaking the law just because there is no 30.06 sign. If you are given oral notice by your employer that you can't CC, or you have been notified in your company operations manual that it is prohibited (using the language of 30.06(3) then you can't CC. They both serve the same purpose as a legal 30.06 sign, and you would be in violation of the law. IANAL, just my reading of PC 30.06.

[texas1234]

Aside from this whole CHL thing, it is still your right to own a firearm and there are laws set in place that defend your right to protect yoursefl. Just CONCEAL it and dont talk about it. I always conceal carry. Concealed means nobody knows you have a gun on your person. Before CHL there were legislators that I know personally that carried a concealed weapon. I mean its nice to have the license, but in the end you are still allowed to own a firearm and you are still legally allowed to defend yourself. The bad guys dont follow rules.

[GhostTX]

Technically, you are violating the law. You've been given written notice per the employee policy.

PC §30.05.

Criminal Trespass
(a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on property, including an aircraft, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

[A-R]

Technically, you are violating the law. You've been given written notice per the employee policy.

PC §30.05.

Criminal Trespass

(a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on property, including an aircraft, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

(b) For purposes of this section:

(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2) "Notice" means:

(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

IANAL

GhostTX, I respectfully but strongly disagree.

PC 30.05 refers to Criminal Trespass. Violating this law means someone told you "don't come in here" or "leave now" and you refused to comply. It says nothing about whether or not you have a handgun on your person. In the OP's case, he hasn't been told not to enter at all, only not to enter with a handgun, which requires notice under PC 30.06 before his refusal to comply rises to the level of criminal trespass.

And effective notice under 30.06 must be either "oral" or, if it is written in any way (sign, card, letter, pamphlet), it must be written using the exact phrasing outlined in 30.06 (below), and of course if it's written on a sign the letters must be one inch tall, contrasting colors etc.

So if OP's only notice that handguns are not allowed at his job is a written notice in an employee handbook that does not match the phrasing of PC 30.06, then I do not believe he is committing a crime (though he could certainly be fired). Of course, if his boss or someone else with apparent authority (an HR person, a security guard, the company president) told him ORALLY that carrying a firearm on the premises is not allowed, then he likely IS committing criminal trespass under PC 30.06

IANAL

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

[MojoTexas]

Technically, you are violating the law. You've been given written notice per the employee policy.

IANAL

GhostTX, I respectfully but strongly disagree.

(snip...)

So if OP's only notice that handguns are not allowed at his job is a written notice in an employee handbook that does not match the phrasing of PC 30.06, then I do not believe he is committing a crime (though he could certainly be fired). Of course, if his boss or someone else with apparent authority (an HR person, a security guard, the company president) told him ORALLY that carrying a firearm on the premises is not allowed, then he likely IS committing criminal trespass under PC 30.06

IANAL

Well, technically my boss *HAS* told me verbally that carrying a firearm is not permitted. Not that he's anti-gun...he has his CHL as well, and we've gone to the range together several times. I also know of a couple of other CHL co-workers. My boss doesn't like the policy any more than I do, but since he's my supervisor, and since he's told me verbally, it sounds like I'm out of luck.

To be honest I'm not that worried when I'm in the building. We have tight security, controlled with multiple layers of access badges, and I don't really feel in danger while I'm at work. I just hate being unarmed if I need to run errands after work.

Hopefully we can get some sort of parking lot legislation passed soon, like Oklahoma and other states have done.

[shootthesheet]

If they put the wording of 30.06 into writing like a handbook or if they tell you most anything about you not being able to have a gun you may be arrested under "trespassing" or 30.05 if you are a CHL holder and I remember correctly. If a note or handbook does not have that 30.06 wording then you can only be fired if I remember correctly. I believe austinrealtor is correct.

[boomerang]

Technically, you are violating the law. You've been given written notice per the employee policy.

How do you know? Did I miss the part where he posted the wording of the policy manual?

[MojoTexas]

Technically, you are violating the law. You've been given written notice per the employee policy.

How do you know? Did I miss the part where he posted the wording of the policy manual?

I'll have to dig out the policy...IIRC, it wasn't the "30.06" language....it was just a generic "no weapons".

However I'm not going to risk it based on the verbal warning from my boss.

[A-R]

Well, technically my boss *HAS* told me verbally that carrying a firearm is not permitted. Not that he's anti-gun...he has his CHL as well, and we've gone to the range together several times. I also know of a couple of other CHL co-workers. My boss doesn't like the policy any more than I do, but since he's my supervisor, and since he's told me verbally, it sounds like I'm out of luck.

I agree, in this case you've likely been properly notified under 30.06. Of course, if you're on good terms with your boss and he is pro-CHL you should smack him on the back of the head, explain the situation, and tell him not to orally tell any future employees this

To be honest I'm not that worried when I'm in the building. We have tight security, controlled with multiple layers of access badges, and I don't really feel in danger while I'm at work.

Glad to know you work at a place where no disgruntled employee or contractor with an access badge would EVER go nuts and just start randomly shooting people. Not sure how your company guarantees this, but must be very comforting for everyone who works there ... /sarcasm

I just hate being unarmed if I need to run errands after work.

Hopefully we can get some sort of parking lot legislation passed soon, like Oklahoma and other states have done.

As far as I know (again, IANAL) you are commiting no crime by leaving your gun in your car whether parked on company property or elsewhere. You can still be fired - which is the problem the parking lot bill would try to correct - but you would not be committing a crime.

Don't have time to look up the specific law on this, but has to do with definition of a "premises" under Texas law and parking lots don't qualify .... unless of course they are the parking lots of a "foreign " occupier within Texas borders, like the delivery service of the United States government (the US Postal Service) which apparently makes its own rules that supercede Texas law - same goes for Army Corp of Engineers property, US military installations etc. Like I said - "foreign" occupied land

[G26ster]

Don't have time to look up the specific law on this, but has to do with definition of a "premises" under Texas law and parking lots don't qualify .... unless of course they are the parking lots of a "foreign " occupier within Texas borders, like the delivery service of the United States government (the US Postal Service) which apparently makes its own rules that supercede Texas law - same goes for Army Corp of Engineers property, US military installations etc. Like I said - "foreign" occupied land

But, the law says "property," not "premises." To me, if the oral or written employee notice says property, wouldn't you be in violation of 30.06 in the parking lot if that parking lot is part of the "property?"

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

[chabouk]

"Premises" applies to places that are off limits by statute. "Property" applies to what someone owns or controls and has the right to tell you that you can't enter or remain.

[SQLGeek]

My employer has the 30.06 notice on both the building entrance and the parking lot entrance. I don't have a CHL yet, would this prevent me from legally keeping a concealed handgun in my car while the car is parked in their lot?

[joe817]

My employer has the 30.06 notice on both the building entrance and the parking lot entrance. I don't have a CHL yet, would this prevent me from legally keeping a concealed handgun in my car while the car is parked in their lot?

Yes, most definitely. If the parking lot is posted with valid 30.06 sign, then you are in violation of the statute if you enter the parking lot with a gun. Short and simple I'm sorry to say.

[SQLGeek]

That's what I figured. Lovely that my job can keep me from protecting myself while driving to and from work.