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I've only recently heard about the sul position and would like to learn more about it from those in the know. From my limited research, it seems to make a lot of sense, in the appropriate situations of course. I've gathered that those situations tend to be the up close and personal variety in a confined space. I'm interested to learn more about it, so what does everyone have to say?

Suarez is probably the biggest proponent of the position among the nationally-known instructors. And you'll get mixed advice about it.

It's best use is not in extreme close quarters combat, though, but in navigating areas where there are non-combatants scattered around, and possibly in tight building-clearing situations. If you're on the ground (or ground floor), IMHO it makes for a quickly-employed and versatile way to get your muzzle in a (realtively) safe position. The two downsides are: 1. If you're on the move, which you probably will be, you'll almost inevitably be covering your feet/legs at some point. 2. If you do get caught at bad-breath distance while you're in Sul, you'll need to have had some specific training to keep the position from becomming a liability; it's far easier for a bad guy to control your hands from that position than, say, if you were in Close Contact Ready.

YMMV.

^^^^^^^^^

Exellent answer!

Thanks Skiprr!

I was basing my assumption on the youtube video that I took a look at demonstrating good close quarters uses for the position, but your response makes a lot more sense.
[youtube][/youtube]

Remember it's a technique for moving through populated (crowded) outdoor areas. When there's no "safe" horizontal direction, the earth makes a good backstop. It's not as well suited to indoors above the lowest floor, on boats or ships, etc.

Skiprr wrote:Suarez is probably the biggest proponent of the position among the nationally-known instructors. And you'll get mixed advice about it.

It's best use is not in extreme close quarters combat, though, but in navigating areas where there are non-combatants scattered around, and possibly in tight building-clearing situations. If you're on the ground (or ground floor), IMHO it makes for a quickly-employed and versatile way to get your muzzle in a (realtively) safe position. The two downsides are: 1. If you're on the move, which you probably will be, you'll almost inevitably be covering your feet/legs at some point. 2. If you do get caught at bad-breath distance while you're in Sul, you'll need to have had some specific training to keep the position from becomming a liability; it's far easier for a bad guy to control your hands from that position than, say, if you were in Close Contact Ready.

YMMV.

Suarez maybe one of SUL's biggest proponents, but he's not the one who developed it. The credit goes to Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan who developed it to control the poor weapons handling of certain Brazilian special operations teams. I've trained with Max on several occasions and his belief at that time was that SUL was inappropriate for use by an individual as a ready position.

An article written by Max on SUL:

http://www.tftt.com/images/Articles/Pos ... sition.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sf1058 wrote:Suarez maybe one of SUL's biggest proponents, but he's not the one who developed it. The credit goes to Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan who developed it to control the poor weapons handling of certain Brazilian special operations teams. I've trained with Max on several occasions and his belief at that time was that SUL was inappropriate for use by an individual as a ready position.

An article written by Max on SUL:

http://www.tftt.com/images/Articles/Pos ... sition.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that. I knew Max had developed Sul--Suarez credits him for it--but I was unaware of Alan Brosnan's name associated with it.

It's one of those, "Why didn't I think of that?" ideas: extremely simple, suits an important purpose, and seems like it should have already been around forever. What kinda amazes me is that it still isn't taught in all departments/units that engage in handgun team tactics.

You will also find Yeager at Tactical Response and Hoffner use this as well. Along with Gabe they have all been my instructors, it is pretty ingrained in my skill set by now, and think its a great position for the pistol while scanning to the rear and moving without going into a ready position or holster

Now, let me take another unpopular opinion. Sul is a bad position for the average person. As pointed out, in close combat it takes special training to eb able to get the gun into play and to retain it from a gun grab. This is a major problem.

The second major problem is the logical fallacy that downward is safe. This might be true in Brazil, but it is certainly not true in most of the United States. Look at your feet. What is underneath them? If you are on a real wood floor you may consider safely using this position. It might go all the way through the wood, so if you are above the first floor, this is doubtful. If you are on a dirt field or grass lawn, this is a safe position. Much of our training takes place on ranges with dirt floors, so it is safe on the range. But most of the US is not dirt. It is hard paved cement or rock. If the gun has a discharge and hits cement, the bullet is going to bounce and no one knows where. This makes it dangerous.

So, it is not a safe direction for real use off the range. It has disadvantages in close quarters combat. It is not a good position, in my opinion.

Which leaves us with the question of where an armed person should be pointing the weapon while moving towards the threat. There is a simple answer. Use your holster if you are moving long distances. If you are searching a building or moving where target acquisition is imminent, then use the third eye position. In this position, the person carries the pistol tucked into their stomach and facing outward ready to shoot. Use both hands to hold the pistol. If you need to use the gun, you can bring it up very rapidly to a shooting position or shoot it from where it is at. And the gun will be pointing towards the target as soon as you see it, since it is facing the way you are.

The secret is, as in most other ways to carry a weapon, keeping your finger off the trigger until needed. If it works for sul position, it will work for this one also. From what I see, the sul position is a solution in search of a problem. The bigger problem is in keeping people's fingers off the trigger until needed, no matter what position the gun is in.

srothstein wrote:From what I see, the sul position is a solution in search of a problem.

Yeah, but it looks really cool.

Skiprr wrote:Suarez is probably the biggest proponent of the position among the nationally-known instructors. And you'll get mixed advice about it.

It's best use is not in extreme close quarters combat, though, but in navigating areas where there are non-combatants scattered around, and possibly in tight building-clearing situations. If you're on the ground (or ground floor), IMHO it makes for a quickly-employed and versatile way to get your muzzle in a (realtively) safe position. The two downsides are: 1. If you're on the move, which you probably will be, you'll almost inevitably be covering your feet/legs at some point. 2. If you do get caught at bad-breath distance while you're in Sul, you'll need to have had some specific training to keep the position from becomming a liability; it's far easier for a bad guy to control your hands from that position than, say, if you were in Close Contact Ready.

YMMV.

its really used for team tactics