TexasCHLforum.com

article 4413 29ee

I can't say, but I would enter the building if I saw that sign.

It has no legal bearing. Only a 30.06 sign or a 51% sign has legal bearing in Texas, as long as this is not a place where it's statutorily off limits, in which case it doesn't matter if there's a sign or not.

Definitely no smoking allowed.

USA1 wrote:Definitely no smoking allowed.

You beat me to that one.

what building is this sign posted on.

Teamless wrote:what building is this sign posted on.

its like a clinic type place

Vernon Civil Statutes (V.C.S) Article 4413 (29ee) refers to the entire Texas Penal Code section pertaining to CHL holders. These signs were valid from the roll-out of the CHL and were frequently placed on hospitals or clinics. On 09/01/1997 the laws were amended to require the correct posting of the 30.06 sign by statute. Only the proper 30.06 sign prohibits CHL holders from carrying in locations that are not otherwise prohibited by law or by other permitted posting (ie. the red 51% signage issued by TABC).

The old V.C.S. posting alone does not prohibit you from carrying in the building.

Keith B wrote: The old V.C.S. posting alone does not prohibit you from carrying in the building.

As a follow up question, does it prohibit the local police from arresting you for carrying? Yes, I fully understand "concealed is concealed." But if a trained LEO is able to detect you, what is the chances of your taking a ride and getting to pay a lawyer to resolve it for you?

chasfm11 wrote:

Keith B wrote: The old V.C.S. posting alone does not prohibit you from carrying in the building.

As a follow up question, does it prohibit the local police from arresting you for carrying? Yes, I fully understand "concealed is concealed." But if a trained LEO is able to detect you, what is the chances of your taking a ride and getting to pay a lawyer to resolve it for you?

The Bedford PD has been trained to recognize valid 30.06 signs.

chasfm11 wrote:

Keith B wrote: The old V.C.S. posting alone does not prohibit you from carrying in the building.

As a follow up question, does it prohibit the local police from arresting you for carrying? Yes, I fully understand "concealed is concealed." But if a trained LEO is able to detect you, what is the chances of your taking a ride and getting to pay a lawyer to resolve it for you?

It really depends on the department and if they want to arrest for a sign that doesn't meet the required statutes. There are those departments out there that have their own interpretation and may try to enforce a non-conforming (not 30.06)sign. In those cases you should beat the rap, but not the ride.

One particular issue we are aware of is the signs at Grapevine Mills Mall do not meet the legal requirements of 30.06. However, the administration at the GPD state they feel they are adequate notice, and if you are caught carrying will potentially be subjected to arrest. They also might just take information and turn it over to the prosecutor to make the decision. Either way, you may be hassled if discovered. And if you are arrested or prosecuted, then you have grounds to file a lawsuit if it warrants it.

Bottom line, concealed is concealed, and if you keep it that way, then no one should know and you won't be discovered. And as long as you are not in a legally prohibited location, then you have a defense to prosecution if discovered.

I want to point out that the DPS legal department believes the old sign verbiage (same 30.06 wording except referencing the 29ee stuff), IS valid notice. This was brought up in the instructor's class.

I do not see how that can be as it does not fit the 30.06 requirements as set by the penal code.

I agree -- I'm just reporting what they said.