To apply or not to apply...

[horns434]

Hello Everyone,

Glad I found this website, its full of so much information I've been needing!

So here's my deal: I took the CHL class yesterday, passed with flying colors (100% written, 246 score shooting), however I'm now having second thoughts on whether to actually turn in the application or not...

My worries center around three issues.
1) I'm not entirely certain its worth getting the license anymore. With the new laws in place that allow for unlicensed concealment in a car, which would be the primary place I'd have my gun, I don't know if it's really something I need. I'm a student, so I wouldn't have it on me during the day, and would really only need it on the drive to and from campus. I took the class primarily to get an in-depth lesson on all the new laws and regulations regarding use of force, and really enjoyed the class. The DPS fee price is not necessarily an issue but I'd obviously rather not spend the $140 if there's no real need.

2) I've heard (from someone who really doesn't have much authority on the issue) that there could be instances where being a CHL holder could put me at greater liability when it comes to legal issues. According to the person's retired police uncle, "if anything were to go down, and you had a CHL, you'd be in bigger trouble cause you're supposed to know better." From what I could get from the person, they were under the impression that the punishment for a serious gun-related crime could be worse if I had a CHL compared to if I didn't... Obviously this makes no logical sense to me, but I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it?

3) I'm somewhat disturbed that it is linked to our Driver's License. I often have people in my car who I would prefer did not know about my gun ownership (I'm only 21 and very small so it generally comes as a huge shock to those who I tell about my guns).
Consider this hypothetical situation: I choose not to carry, for whatever reason, and get pulled over for speeding with friends in the car who do not know about my guns or CHL. Since I'm not carrying and don't want them to know about it, I decide not to hand the officer my CHL when he asks for ID. He goes back to his car, sees that I'm a CHL holder, and comes back and openly says something along the lines of "I see you have a CHL". This officer has essentially just disclosed to the people in my car that I have a CHL, which should have remained private information.

Is this a situation that could actually occur, or is there a way to avoid the officer asking the question without giving away the information anyways? The way I look at it, even if I DO show the CHL from the start, he'll ask if I'm carrying, so there's no way to avoid it.


Thanks for reading, anybody have thoughts?

[Cobra Medic]

If you only carry at home and in your car, I agree the CHL is superfluous, as well as a hassle during traffic stops.

[WildBill]

Since I'm not carrying and don't want them to know about it, I decide not to hand the officer my CHL when he asks for ID. He goes back to his car, sees that I'm a CHL holder, and comes back and openly says something along the lines of "I see you have a CHL". This officer has essentially just disclosed to the people in my car that I have a CHL, which should have remained private information.

"I see you have a CHL" is not a question. The officer is more likely to say "Do you have a gun" so you can answer "no" and no one will be the wiser. BTW, welcome to the Forum.

[Oldgringo]

If you only carry at home and in your car, I agree the CHL is superfluous, as well as a hassle during traffic stops.

, if you hurry between the house and the car and the store, etc., you'll probably be okay.

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum.

By getting a CHL, you are in effect voting for the right to keep and bear arms. Without one, you run the risk of being arrested for unlawful carry by LEOs who are not informed about current law. There are numerous threads on this forum about such arrests.

Having or not having a CHL is not a factor in self-defense shootings. There is no basis for such a thing in Texas law or jurisprudence (IANAL, etc.). Just don't shoot anyone who doesn't need to be shot.

How often are you stopped for traffic violations? I honestly don't understand this. Do you have a car with no muffler or Grateful Dead decals?

The last time I was stopped was 1996, and that was for having a handwritten Texas temporary placard while driving through Arkansas. And I look like a hippie.

- Jim

[WildBill]

My worries center around three issues.
2) I've heard (from someone who really doesn't have much authority on the issue) that there could be instances where being a CHL holder could put me at greater liability when it comes to legal issues. According to the person's retired police uncle, "if anything were to go down, and you had a CHL, you'd be in bigger trouble cause you're supposed to know better." From what I could get from the person, they were under the impression that the punishment for a serious gun-related crime could be worse if I had a CHL compared to if I didn't... Obviously this makes no logical sense to me, but I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it?

Thanks for reading, anybody have thoughts?

This is one of the most ridiculous statements about CHL that I have ever heard.

[seamusTX]

Actually, the phrase "go down" reflects a stereotype movie or hip-hop thug language mentality that should be discarded.

If you are attacked, you lawfully defend yourself. In this state, if your circumstances justify it, you are golden.

- Jim

[CC Italian]

To me it is a personal safety issue for my loved ones and myself. If the law allows me to carry I will. Of course I will still go to places that I am not legal to carry. I just won’t carry a handgun but I rather have that choice to protect myself and loved ones. As for the legal recourse, well if I feel the need to draw a handgun to save my life or someone under my protection then the last thing I am worried about is lawyers and law. I am worried about stopping a life threatening situation without hurting innocent bystanders. Law means nothing to me if I am dead.

Same reason I drive a truck and large sedan, personal safety. If you think about it the number 1 way to die between the ages of 25-50 is a car accident. That’s why I think it is kind of funny when people buy these little smart cars or any other little tiny car. My brother is an EMS and he always tells me the horror stories of a Honda civic or any other small car getting hit by a full size sedan or pickup truck. My point is if you can better protect yourself and loved ones why would you not do it?

[ELB]

My philosophy: until such time as every law abiding adult can carry a gun concealed or openly, I think every one of them should get a CHL.

You've done the "hard" part, except for forking over the $140, so it will not otherwise bother you much to go ahead and get it. At the point you decide you actually "need" it you will be at least 30 days away from being able to get it, and that's only if it happens in the next year or so (I forget how long the class is good for, but there is a limit). The CHL is good for five years.

If you think it is possible that you can be confronted with a situation that requires you to defend yourself with lethal force, you also have to consider the possibility -- maybe even the probability -- that it won't schedule itself for when you are in the car. Remember, you won't get the initiative -- someone else will decide "your moment" has come. A CHL gives you a legal way to help prepare for that...

I think your friend's uncle's retired police chief is full of it. Yes there might be individuals in the criminal justice system who have it in for CHL holders. I suspect one of them used to be DA of Houston. But. The liklihood of you being involved in an iffy shoot multiplied by the liklhood that you encounter one of these individuals in Texas is pretty small (I think -- see comments on behavior below). This is a pretty thin reed to cancel your CHL over. I think overall Texas has a pretty good history on how it treats its CHL holders who blast someone who needs blasting, i.e. a good, legitimate, self-defense shooting.

There are people I would prefer not know I have a CHL for various reasons. However, what they think is not a hill of beans to my decision to protect me and my wife. The traffic stop scenario is not impossible, but really, how often do you get stopped? Unless your driving and general behavior needs improvement... In which case, if the weight of having a CHL and a gun tempers your more extreme driving and behavioral habits, then maybe that is a good thing?

And maybe some new friends.

[bigred90gt]

A person with a CHL should not be involved with any "serious gun related crimes". Having a CHL and carrying a pistol is a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly.

[WildBill]

Hello Everyone,
My worries center around three issues.
1) The DPS fee price is not necessarily an issue but I'd obviously rather not spend the $140 if there's no real need.
Thanks for reading, anybody have thoughts?

I have already shot down two of the three worries about getting your CHL.

You already spent money on the course so think of it as the last payment to get your diploma. If you are a student you will probably spend more than $140 on pizza in the next 5 years.

[horns434]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

To respond to a few comments, I completely agree the statement about liability is ridiculous and made no sense to me when I heard it, but since I'm not a law student I figured I better ask anyways. Granted, I can see how some over-aggressive DA or lawyer could try to use that as an attack against me.

As for tickets, it's not so much that I get pulled over a lot, just that I got pulled over recently, two weeks ago, for speeding with people in the car I REALLY would not want to know about my gun ownership (anti-gun family members who would have none of that...), so this situation is fresh in my imagination. And considering I'm not exactly what you'd call a "slow driver"...

[Oldgringo]

A person with a CHL should not be involved with any "serious gun related crimes". Having a CHL and carrying a pistol is a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly.

, this facet of of being a Texas CH licensee can not be stressed enough.

[seamusTX]

If you think it is possible that you can be confronted with a situation that requires you to defend yourself with lethal force, you also have to consider the possibility -- maybe even the probability -- that it won't schedule itself for when you are in the car.

I agree that the criminal gets to determine the time, place, and means of attack without prior notice.

That is why my routine is eyeglasses, pants, pistol, shirt, cell phone, shoes.

Carjacking, though it gets a fair amount of publicity, is so rare in the grand scheme of things that it is not a separate category of crime. (It is robbery.)

- Jim

[CC Italian]

Also, I have never had a problem with law enforcement. I know some have but they were professional with the one case when I was pulled over for an burned out light. Some cops don't like other people carrying guns even if it is legal. Thats fine, they can have thier opinion. As long as I follow the law they have nothing else to say. After all enforcing the law is thier job. As for your speeding. Just don't speed. When I was younger I got plenty of tickets for speeding and I had the car to do it in to but as you get older I guess you just calm down a little more. At least in my case I am not in such a rush. Nothing is that important unless I am going to the ER.