Hello everyone updates for an old issue

[Gambit]

Hello everyone,

I will start out by directing everyone to the Thread that started my whole journey.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36550

Since then, I have applied for my Florida CHL and am carring under Floridas CHL. I have also requested and recieved a "Seal of Record" from the Judge in my district.

Fast forward to today I am typing up a letter to send to the TDPS CHL law Dept to inquire about my eligibility for a Texas CHL. I thought you gentlmen may want to read it over and give me some input. And maybe help someone in the same boat as I. Charles your input would be emensly appreciated, Wish me luck.

Hello
I am enquiring about a CHL license Number ###### .
Here is the background to my enquiry. I was charged with Burglary of Habitation (Penal Code section 30.02) and deferred adjudicated in 1991. I completed the probationary period and was terminated from probation early (4 years instead of ten). In 2005 the State added GC 411.1711 to the “Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes”

GC § 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an
order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date
not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for
a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication
was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code;
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code;
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; or

I then applied and received a Texas CHL and carried until 2009.
It was revoked by the state in 2010, when a change took effect in 2009 in a legislative change which added the below (highlighted) into ‘GC 411.1711 Certain exemptions from Convictions’. I added the statute below for your convenience. Which is on page 3-4 of the “2009 Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes” .

GC § 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an
order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date
not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for
a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication
was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code;
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code;
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; or
(D) Section 30.02, Penal Code, if the offense is punishable
under Subsection (c)(2) or (d) of that section; or
(2) an offense under the laws of another state if the offense contains
elements that are substantially similar to the elements of an offense listed
in Subdivision (1).

I recently contacted my lawyer that represented me in 1991 and requested a “Seal of Records” from the Judge. The Judge granted the request this year 2011.



And now my enquiry is:
Since under Section (4) Sub Section (C) in “GC 411.171 Definitions” States:

“GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS In this subchapter:
(1) removed for focus
(2) removed for focus
(3) removed for focus.
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Would “GC 411.1711 CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS” which disqualified me from my CHL; apply to me since “GC 411.171 Definitions” excludes me from the “Convictions” definition?
Thank you for your time an I will be looking forward to your reply.

Any input from you fine gentlmen??

[speedsix]

...glad you found your way through the maze, and the INTENT of the law was well satisfied...welcome back to the community of those who know their rights and WILL have them... let us know when your plastic arrives!!!

[Charles L. Cotton]

Let me know if DPS says you will be rejected.

Chas.

Hello everyone,

I will start out by directing everyone to the Thread that started my whole journey.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36550

Since then, I have applied for my Florida CHL and am carring under Floridas CHL. I have also requested and recieved a "Seal of Record" from the Judge in my district.

Fast forward to today I am typing up a letter to send to the TDPS CHL law Dept to inquire about my eligibility for a Texas CHL. I thought you gentlmen may want to read it over and give me some input. And maybe help someone in the same boat as I. Charles your input would be emensly appreciated, Wish me luck.

Hello
I am enquiring about a CHL license Number ###### .
Here is the background to my enquiry. I was charged with Burglary of Habitation (Penal Code section 30.02) and deferred adjudicated in 1991. I completed the probationary period and was terminated from probation early (4 years instead of ten). In 2005 the State added GC 411.1711 to the “Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes”

GC § 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an
order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date
not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for
a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication
was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code;
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code;
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; or

I then applied and received a Texas CHL and carried until 2009.
It was revoked by the state in 2010, when a change took effect in 2009 in a legislative change which added the below (highlighted) into ‘GC 411.1711 Certain exemptions from Convictions’. I added the statute below for your convenience. Which is on page 3-4 of the “2009 Texas Concealed Handgun Laws and Selected Statutes” .

GC § 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an
order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date
not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for
a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication
was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code;
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code;
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; or
(D) Section 30.02, Penal Code, if the offense is punishable
under Subsection (c)(2) or (d) of that section; or
(2) an offense under the laws of another state if the offense contains
elements that are substantially similar to the elements of an offense listed
in Subdivision (1).

I recently contacted my lawyer that represented me in 1991 and requested a “Seal of Records” from the Judge. The Judge granted the request this year 2011.



And now my enquiry is:
Since under Section (4) Sub Section (C) in “GC 411.171 Definitions” States:

“GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS In this subchapter:
(1) removed for focus
(2) removed for focus
(3) removed for focus.
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.

Would “GC 411.1711 CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS” which disqualified me from my CHL; apply to me since “GC 411.171 Definitions” excludes me from the “Convictions” definition?
Thank you for your time an I will be looking forward to your reply.

Any input from you fine gentlmen??

[Gambit]

Uhg.. I got this reply. I thought it was very lazy answer in my opinion. It was cut and pasted into a reply email from thier Q&A page.

Seemed like they didnt even read my email. I replied with the details but I dont know; I may have to retain a lawyer to look into it.

removed I didnt read thier Email notice ..

AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.

[C-dub]

Sorry to hear about that. I hope Charles might be of some help. If he is it might not be too soon or even not until the next legislative session, but if anyone can get that ball rolling it would be him.

[Dragonfighter]

Uhg.. I got this reply. I thought it was very lazy answer in my opinion. It was cut and pasted into a reply email from thier Q&A page.

Seemed like they didnt even read my email. I replied with the details but I dont know; I may have to retain a lawyer to look into it.

33. I was placed on deferred adjudication more than 10 years ago for Burglary of a Habitation, am I eligible for a concealed handgun license?
No. Effective September 1, 2009, Burglary of a Habitation under Section 30.02, Texas Penal Code is now an offense that is permanently disqualifying under §411.1711, Texas Government Code. Even if you received deferred adjudication for Burglary of a Habitation, you are permanently ineligible to obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun in Texas.


Best regards,
Concealed Handgun Program
Customer Relations Section

Our mailing address:
Texas Department of Public Safety
Concealed Handgun License Program, MSC 0245
PO Box 4087
Austin, TX 78773-0245



Texas Department of Public Safety
Regulatory Services Division
Phone: (512) 424-7293
Website: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administra ... sindex.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.

Did they even READ your letter?

Did they sign it? I am not proposing you post any names here but I would include such a person's name in any future action.

[Gambit]

It seems as though they didnt. I just cut and pasted everything in the email they replied with. I guess they are leary and already have predjudices when someone of questionable past inquires about carrying a firearm. I have to keep in mind that they do not know the back story. All they know is that im a "burglar" of questionable moral compass.

If only i was smart enough to have said no so long ago. Not to mention if the dad was armed it would have a different story. I was such a stupid kid. I do not regret much in life because we learn from our mistakes but that mistake i truely regret.

[johnson0317]

Gambit,

Working as a Family Nurse Practitioner, I often have the chance to observe those that have made terrible life decisions. I learned to say to myself, long ago, "there but for the Grace of God go I". I have made poor choices while, sober, and while intoxicated. I lost True North on my moral compass and did things that were simply wrong to do. Somewhere along the line I realized I had avoided the consequences for my behaviors up to that point. That was where I decided to clean up my life and start living like a Christian man, husband, and father. These people I see from car wrecks could have been me. These people who can no longer breath after years of smoking could be me. These people who have end stage liver disease could have been me. Please do not misunderstand me, I did not ever cross the line from misdemeanor into felony, but I could have. So, like you, I regret many things in my past. I wish I knew where some people were so I could apologize for being such a jerk. However, a man can change, he can sow his wild oats and live his wild years, and then he can settle down. Getting to that point without having killed someone, or having gone to jail, allows me to understand some people were not as lucky as I. I try very hard to not judge them since I could have been them.

These days, I am the dedicated/designated driver. I quit smoking 12 years ago, and I quit being a morally challenged jerk (for the most part) about 19 years ago. A lot of water under the bridge since then, but I remain vigilant lest I slip into the water and finally drown. You made your mistake, paid for it, and genuinely regret it. I hope you get things sorted out soon.

RJ

[Gambit]

Thank you for the kind words Johnson0317. Have a great Christmas.

[Pawpaw]

Gambit,

Did you contact Charles, like he asked?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49848#p611668" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If he made the offer, he has a reason!

[Gambit]

Paw paw,
Not yet . Im waiting on the reply of the reply. If its still a no ill contact Charles. Dont wanna jump the gun so to speak.

Gambit

[Gambit]

Well here is thier reply to my reply. I dont really think they have lawyers reading the emails and letters.

I think Im just going to reinitiate the CHL application process and have a real lawyer (an assumption that non lawyers replied) answer.

Charles, PM inbound.


removed I didnt read thier Email notice ..

AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.

[C-dub]

Well here is thier reply to my reply. I dont really think they have lawyers reading the emails and letters.

I think Im just going to reinitiate the CHL application process and have a real lawyer (an assumption that non lawyers replied) answer.

Charles, PM inbound.


removed I didnt read thier Email notice ..

AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.

It's up to you, but I think those notices are in case they accidentally send it to the wrong person. I don't think they can or will try to do anything to you for making it public or sharing with someone else, but Ill take a guess that since you've contacted Charles their answer was still no.

[Gambit]

Yes their answer was still no. it was the same email above with an added line . basically paraphrasing number 33 of their eligibility Q&A.

They dont seem to take into consideration any new data or why i took the time to type up the long email and question.

[Thomas]

removed I didnt read thier Email notice ..

AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.

Those aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and they aren't even printed on paper, so there you go. Of course I'm no lawyer however. Supposedly there is no case law one way or the other. I can't find the article where someone asked some lawyers about it and they (these specific lawyers) pretty much agreed they're worthless.