TexasCHLforum.com

When I buy a gun they take the usual info and
fill out the forms and do a computer check

What is done with the info are any permanent
records kept by state or fed of the purchase???

New Hampshire keeps a perm. record of gun purchases

tommyg wrote:When I buy a gun they take the usual info and
fill out the forms and do a computer check

What is done with the info are any permanent
records kept by state or fed of the purchase???

New Hampshire keeps a perm. record of gun purchases

The short answer is: In Texas, No.

as I understand the state of Texas does NOT keep a record of any type, the ncic office is supposed to keep only a control number record of what FFL called in, no identifying information, no name no type of fire arm no nothing(we know that they do keep all the info in defiance of the law) the dealer who you purchased the fire arm from keeps all forms pertaining to that particular sale, type of firearm, date. identifying info of the person that purchased the fire arm and the control number issued by NCIC for the purpose of criminal investigation and audit of sales.

The dealer is required to keep the records. If they go out of business, they're supposed to send the forms to ATF unless they were destroyed in a flood or something. Meanwhile, the ATF can come and copy any records they want and there are many reports of them copying information during "inspections" of dealer records.

That's interesting. I never knew that.
Thanks

smoothoperator wrote:The dealer is required to keep the records. If they go out of business, they're supposed to send the forms to ATF unless they were destroyed in a flood or something. Meanwhile, the ATF can come and copy any records they want and there are many reports of them copying information during "inspections" of dealer records.

That reminds me of a story I read one time. During the Clintonian Era, an FFL was forced out of business due to some clerical errors. All the guns themselves were accounted for, just some of the I's weren't dotted and t's not crossed...this was an older gentleman who had been in business for MANY years, somewhere in the Mid-West...anyway, he hired a couple of guys to pack up the place and wouldn't you know it? One of the guys was a smoker and just happened to knock a lit cigarette into the filing cabinet with all the records...hard for the BATFE to read ashes, I'd guess. Darn the luck.

When you purchase a gun in Texas, a background check is performed by calling FBI NICS (not a computer), a reference number is issued by FBI NICS to be written on the transaction form and your are approved or denied. As was stated, the dealer is required to keep the records until they go out of business at which time they are supposed to send the forms to ATF. The ATF can come and copy any records they desire during inspections. An active CHL voids the need to call FBI NICS, but your CHL info is written on the transaction record.

The Multiple Transaction Form. The only time your info is transferred to the ATF is when you purchase more than one HANDGUN at a time! Then a copy of the transaction record goes to the ATF, and a copy also goes to the local Sheriff's Dept. If you want buy more than one handgun at a time, buy them five days apart from one another and you can avoid the multiple handgun transaction form.

Handguns only....this does not apply to longuns.

Want to know the truth? The government is secretly compiling a huge database with all of our sensitive information. They know what guns you own, how many guns you own, and where you live. On 12-21-12 they will send men in black suits to your house to confiscate your weapons. If you do not comply, you will mysteriously disappear.

The state of Texas, or any of its political subdivisions, gets no copy of any firearm records unless you buy two or more handguns from the same dealer within 5 business days (and possibly semi-auto long guns under the new "rule"). If you meet those requirements then the ATF requires they give a copy of the multiple purchase form to the local PD.

The feds have been known to illegally keep/compile records from NICS checks, but we can not say if they are doing this now because they won't tell us. On the multiple sales reports they get a copy to permenantly keep. The ATF can make copies of certain records under certain conditions but they tend to think that "certain" means "all".

The dealer keeps the 4473 and a comment in his bound book as to the disposition (sale/transfer) of the firearm. A dealer can destroy his copy of records after they reach a certain age, many do not out of concern that the ATF might react badly. Many dealers have fires or other issues when they go out of business. There is an E4473 process (it still prints out a form though) and the ATF offers the software for it to the dealers for free, and the dealer can also get permission to use an eletronic bound book. The same rules and laws apply just the same to the electronic copies of the records as they do to the paper copies.

USA1 wrote:Want to know the truth? The government is secretly compiling a huge database with all of our sensitive information. They know what guns you own, how many guns you own, and where you live. On 12-21-12 they will send men in black suits to your house to confiscate your weapons. If you do not comply, you will mysteriously disappear.

Oh MAN!!!

Next you'll be telling everyone about the chips they implant in all newborns now...

Uh-oh, someone's beating on my door and I suddenly have a headache.

(We REALLY need a Tin Hat smilie)

alpmc wrote:When you purchase a gun in Texas, a background check is performed by calling FBI NICS (not a computer), a reference number is issued by FBI NICS to be written on the transaction form and your are approved or denied. As was stated, the dealer is required to keep the records until they go out of business at which time they are supposed to send the forms to ATF. The ATF can come and copy any records they desire during inspections. An active CHL voids the need to call FBI NICS, but your CHL info is written on the transaction record.

The Multiple Transaction Form. The only time your info is transferred to the ATF is when you purchase more than one HANDGUN at a time! Then a copy of the transaction record goes to the ATF, and a copy also goes to the local Sheriff's Dept. If you want buy more than one handgun at a time, buy them five days apart from one another and you can avoid the multiple handgun transaction form.

Handguns only....this does not apply to longuns.

I need to correct a few misstatements in your post:
1) NICS can be done by computer. I never call in, in fact. Much easier, actually.
2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money). If I quit the biz, the forms go to the ATF for "proper disposal".
3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations. Apparently, thousands of guns are being smuggled into Mexico (courtesy of the ATF), so now the ATF wants to track those transactions on an MTF. Gotta appease the ATF, dontyaknow


As for being paranoid about black helicopters -- private sales are still private. I reckon if the day ever comes that the ATF wants to collect, they're going to find almost all guns people bought were "sold" off to somebody else (actually, if it comes to that, I reckon a lot of people are going to apply the "you can take it out of my cold dead hands" rule)

USA1 wrote:Want to know the truth? The government is secretly compiling a huge database with all of our sensitive information. They know what guns you own, how many guns you own, and where you live. On 12-21-12 they will send men in black suits to your house to confiscate your weapons. If you do not comply, you will mysteriously disappear.

i'll answer the door in my tighty whities, wearing my Spanish Conquistador-style foil hat and ask them if the Mothership is finally here to take me home

PBratton wrote:

USA1 wrote:.

(We REALLY need a Tin Hat smilie)

U meen sumptin lik ths?

NOW we need that LIKE button

OldCannon - Thanks for your corrections to my post. I'm not a dealer but I have inquired about this very subject from 3 of our local guys...................seems they are not telling me the whole story. They all said they called into NICS.............none mentioned a computer. Glad to know this is an option.

Let me get this straight.......you said:

OldCannon wrote:2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money).

To whom do you charge a fee for storing 4473 forms?

OldCannon wrote:3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations.

So your saying that all multiple transactions must be reported by Texas gun dealers.......even long guns? Please tell us more on this matter with source references to the regulations.

Thanks!