2A in today's sermon

Venus Pax · #1

Dh & I are attending a new church. (No, we didn't get disgruntled and leave the other one.)
The pastor at our former church knew that several of us carry handguns and didn't have a problem with it. I was a bit curious as to whether or not I would get hasseled by this guy if he ever found out.

In the sermon today, he talked about how several of the characters in the Old Testament were warriors long before they had experiences with God. The passage we were reading was (I think) in Genesis about how Abram took his armed servants and went to Lot's rescue when he was kidnapped by the Sodomites. Then, he said something that shocked me (but in a good way): I have guns in my home and every one of you should too. You need to live at peace with everyone, but be prepared to protect yourselves and your family. God didn't call us to be a bunch of sissies.

Now this wasn't really was his message was about; it was on being a blessing to others. But he said this as a side note and then went on with his message. I grinned at my husband and said, "I'm officially comfortable here."

MrDrummy · #2

That IS a nice little "word," isn't it?

I frequently go shoot clays and handguns with my pastor-- as a matter of fact, it's how I met the guy!

GlockenHammer · #3

Nice story. There is a time to turn the other cheek, but there is also a time to fight. I pray that God grants me the wisdom to know when to do which.

Tote 9 · #4

GlockenHammer wrote:Nice story. There is a time to turn the other cheek, but there is also a time to fight. I pray that God grants me the wisdom to know when to do which.

longtooth · #5

Yes, me too ladies & gentlemen.

KBCraig · #6

I have a few friends who are Christian pacifists. They believe it is always, 100% of the time, against the teachings of Jesus to use force against another person, no matter what the circumstances. They would even reject anyone using force on their behalf in their defense (whether it's me, the Army, or the police).

If I am to be martyred for my faith, I would gladly go to the arms of God. However, laying down my life to a mugger or burglar is not going to spread the Gospel through my blood.

For those friends who reject violence even in self defense, I'm reminded of the tale of the "faithful" person who drowned in a flood waiting for God to save him. God said, "I sent you a truck, and a boat, and a helicopter! What did you want?!"

God gave us tools, the brains to create and use them, and His Spirit to tell us right from wrong. Sometimes, you just gotta trust the voice in your heart.

Kevin

flintknapper · #7

KBCraig wrote:I have a few friends who are Christian pacifists. They believe it is always, 100% of the time, against the teachings of Jesus to use force against another person, no matter what the circumstances. They would even reject anyone using force on their behalf in their defense (whether it's me, the Army, or the police).

If I am to be martyred for my faith, I would gladly go to the arms of God. However, laying down my life to a mugger or burglar is not going to spread the Gospel through my blood.

For those friends who reject violence even in self defense, I'm reminded of the tale of the "faithful" person who drowned in a flood waiting for God to save him. God said, "I sent you a truck, and a boat, and a helicopter! What did you want?!"

God gave us tools, the brains to create and use them, and His Spirit to tell us right from wrong. Sometimes, you just gotta trust the voice in your heart.

Kevin

This position is of their own making, it is NOT biblically supported. That should make a difference to Christians.

cloudcroft · #8

Intense, passionate sermons by Protestant preachers (not sure of Catholic priests) on assorted social/political issues of the day in the early 1770s helped, among other things, both to inform and to motivate American colonists for the Revolutionary War.

Preachers should do that today, too...LOTS of it! The Church has become so timid and emasculated nowadays.

flintknapper,

The Bible doesn't come out AGAINST self-defense, either!

That's the problem with the Bible...it's not CLEAR about a number of important everyday life issues!

So as serious Christians, we each make the call...to be a sheep or a lion.

Your choice, too.

-- John D.

kauboy · #9

flintknapper wrote:This position is of their own making, it is NOT biblically supported. That should make a difference to Christians.

Your absolutely right, its not. Yet that is exactly how a friend of mine interprets it. He has outright told me that he would make no attempts to stop the rape and murder of his wife or the killing of his child. He believes that it is "just their time". And that they will be with God soon after.

I felt vomit rise in my throat when I heard that. You can't rationalize anything with people like that. They are the true sheep, and they are blindly following their shepard that is forever calling on them to protect themselves.
Even Christ told his disciples that if they did not own a sword, they should sell their cloaks and buy one.(Lk 22:36) That sound like a "lay down and die" command to you? Me neither.

stevie_d_64 · #10

I figure God wants me to protect the gift that was given to me...With the skills, equipment and good judgement to do so...

And if that time is over, he'll make sure that my transition is whatever he wants that to be...He's the boss...

I'm ok with that...

cloudcroft · #11

True.

Although contrary to what many people think, "God helps those who help themselves" is NOT in the Bible, but I still agree with the concept.

I pray for protection for myself and loved ones -- and others -- but I also need to take steps to protect myself and others. For me that's being armed and dangerous.

It's kind of like praying for a job but never going out to look for one...we Christians (don't know what Pagans do...tree-thumping perhaps?) need to pray AND act...then the outcome is left in God's hands.

So if I lose the fight, I really DO see it as "An Act of God," that it was my time to check out...

-- John D.

kauboy · #12

cloudcroft wrote:So if I lose the fight, I really DO see it as "An Act of God," that it was my time to check out...

BINGO! +100

The Marshal · #13

cloudcroft wrote:Intense, passionate sermons by Protestant preachers (not sure of Catholic priests) on assorted social/political issues of the day in the early 1770s helped, among other things, both to inform and to motivate American colonists for the Revolutionary War.

John, have you ever seen that famous painting, as well as the story of, the pastor during the Rev. War that was ripping pages out of the Bible to hand them to the Minutemen to use as wadding for their shot? HA!

I believe that defines motivation and position.

~Bill

KBCraig · #14

kauboy wrote:
flintknapper wrote:This position is of their own making, it is NOT biblically supported. That should make a difference to Christians.
Your absolutely right, its not. Yet that is exactly how a friend of mine interprets it. He has outright told me that he would make no attempts to stop the rape and murder of his wife or the killing of his child. He believes that it is "just their time". And that they will be with God soon after.

To be consistent with that belief, I hope he eschews doctors, medicine (even OTC), seatbelts, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers...

Kevin

jimlongley · #15

KBCraig wrote:
kauboy wrote:
flintknapper wrote:This position is of their own making, it is NOT biblically supported. That should make a difference to Christians.
Your absolutely right, its not. Yet that is exactly how a friend of mine interprets it. He has outright told me that he would make no attempts to stop the rape and murder of his wife or the killing of his child. He believes that it is "just their time". And that they will be with God soon after.
To be consistent with that belief, I hope he eschews doctors, medicine (even OTC), seatbelts, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers...

Kevin

I had an acquaintance, years ago (one hesitates to call him a friend) who did exactly that. He picked and chose a little bit, as he was a volunteer fireman in our community, but he kept no fire extinguishers in his home and when the seat belt law was passed he was one of the first ticketed. He fought it for a little while, based on religious freedom, but eventually gave up.

You want to see how upset he got when the owner of a barn that was burning broke out a couple of cases of beer for the firemen who were keeping his house and other outbuildings from going up too. Even though beer and wine were used in the Bible, he was REALLY against them.