Teen killed by Florida CHL'er

[ffemt300]

Anyone see this? Sorry if its a repost. Didnt find anything when I searched for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/2 ... _ref=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Florida’s controversial ‘Stand Your Ground’ law is back on the national stage after the murder of yet another unarmed, black teenager.

Michael Dunn, a 45-year-old Florida resident, is invoking the controversial law after a recent confrontation turned fatal, The Orlando Sentinel reports

[joelamosobadiah]

From the very limited facts given in the story this sounds completely unjustifiable.

Pulls up alongside another vehicle to ask them to turn down their music, words are exchanged, shots are fired. Unless one of them was armed and pulled a gun (a fact I think would be pertinent to the story) then I can't see how this was a justified use of force.

[ffemt300]

Agreed. We shall see.

[68blackbird]

I don't have my CHL yet, but from everything I have read(mostly from this forum), seems like the shooter instigated the matter. Yeah, it may have been annoying, a bunch of young kids rolling up with their loud music, I don't care for it either,but I'm not sure if i would say something if I was not carrying, though tempted to do so, but most certainly would NOT say anything to them if I was carrying. Don't "we" as CHL holders(when I get mine) have an obligation to avoid situations even more so than a non CHL holder? I know I have been guilty of "flipping" someone off after getting cut-off on the road, maybe honked and barked at them, then they flip me off, so I "replied back", but that cannot be the case once I(we) accepted the responsibilty of being a CHL holder. I am taking the approach that as a CHL holder, I am holding myself to be above the pettyness. I mean, if the guy just gets his gas, ignored the bunch of young kids(we were all kids at one time), goes about his business, the kid is still alive,and he is not being tried for the crime, all is good.....all over some loud music, this momentary laspe in reason effected many people, my 2¢.

[i8godzilla]

If--as the article states--he shot at someone still in a car, it is hard to understand how he was standing 'his' ground.

Is there a reason that the article had to let us know that the victim was black (x2) and the shooter was white? (Rhetorical question BTW.)

[NEB]

Also, as incriminating as the story sounds for the shooter, don't we live in a country where juries and judges ultimately determine guilt? Apparently, the Orlando Sentinel doesn't think so: "...after the murder of yet another unarmed, black teenager."

That aside, this appears to be an ENTIRELY avoidable shooting. Sad.

[TexasCajun]

I don't have my CHL yet, but from everything I have read(mostly from this forum), seems like the shooter instigated the matter. Yeah, it may have been annoying, a bunch of young kids rolling up with their loud music, I don't care for it either,but I'm not sure if i would say something if I was not carrying, though tempted to do so, but most certainly would NOT say anything to them if I was carrying. Don't "we" as CHL holders(when I get mine) have an obligation to avoid situations even more so than a non CHL holder? I know I have been guilty of "flipping" someone off after getting cut-off on the road, maybe honked and barked at them, then they flip me off, so I "replied back", but that cannot be the case once I(we) accepted the responsibilty of being a CHL holder. I am taking the approach that as a CHL holder, I am holding myself to be above the pettyness. I mean, if the guy just gets his gas, ignored the bunch of young kids(we were all kids at one time), goes about his business, the kid is still alive,and he is not being tried for the crime, all is good.....all over some loud music, this momentary laspe in reason effected many people, my 2¢.

Exactly the mentality I adopted when I made the decision (not very long ago) to get my CHL. And I believe that I'm the better for it. When I make the choice each day to leave my house as an armed citizen, I also take on the added responsibility of trying to do everything in my power to not have to employ the tool at my side. And yes, I believe myself to be held to a higher standard because of it. No more impatient honking at dipwads. No more 1/2 victory signs or cussing out nimrods (which actually can draw an obscenity charge, btw). And definitely no more playing swoop & brake with wingnuts on the freeway.

As with any of the articles that first get referenced on here & other forums, lots of facts seem to be missing/left out. Although I do find it "interesting" that the races of all of the participants seem to be clearly and prominently recorded. So given the few facts presented and being able to reflect from the relative safety & security of my computer keyboard, there are several issues that I'd call into question. Why pull up to a gas pump next to where someone is playing loud music if the music offends? If no other pumps are available, why not find another gas station or wait until the musicers leave? If one MUST pull up to a pump next to loud music, does it make a lot of sense to make an issue of the music when clearly outnumbered? A similar point could be made a bit later in the encounter if a polite request was made to turn the music down and that request was met with a disrespectful reply - it doesn't make sense to press the issue when clearly outnumbered.

[Heartland Patriot]

And doesn't anyone think that the HUFFINGTON POST, a site noted for liberal-progressive/leftist thought, would like to post an article that is written in a fashion to fan the anti-firearm flames among their base? Especially now, with the BHO administration securely in power? The "facts" from a single newspaper article posted on a left-wing website do NOT make it an open-and-shut case. Look at the previous case of the "angelic child" and the killer "white" guy for comparison.

[ffemt300]

And doesn't anyone think that the HUFFINGTON POST, a site noted for liberal-progressive/leftist thought, would like to post an article that is written in a fashion to fan the anti-firearm flames among their base? Especially now, with the BHO administration securely in power? The "facts" from a single newspaper article posted on a left-wing website do NOT make it an open-and-shut case. Look at the previous case of the "angelic child" and the killer "white" guy for comparison.

Yeah, not the most credible source....

[Pep]

Somewhere on this forum I read the best advice ... as a CHL holder when you're carrying, forget how to give someone the finger.

Probably works just as well even if you're not carrying.

Conflict avoided.

[TexasCajun]

Waaaay back in my college days, I took Taekwando. They taught "the first rule of self-defense is politeness". And then fast-forward about 20yrs to my CHL class that taught "the easiest way to employ non-voilent dispute resolution is to not get in disputes that could turn violent". Somewhere in between the two, I picked up the following "Many situations will offer you a choice of mercy or justice. Which one will you choose?" Since I've gotten away with a whole lot more than I've gotten caught & punished for, I'll take mercy every time!

[longbedder]

as i was sitting in the dentist office this morning waiting to get some fillings, HLN was reporting on this story. the lawyer of the shooter, Michael Dunn, said that Mr. Dunn saw a shotgun pointed at his jetta. that was the threat that supposedly happened. Don't know what the police found or whatnot, that's just what i heard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/11/28 ... se-florida" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[smoothoperator]

the lawyer of the shooter, Michael Dunn, said that Mr. Dunn saw a shotgun pointed at his jetta. that was the threat that supposedly happened.

That sure changes the equation, although it still has nothing to do with the "stand your ground" law in Florida. I guess some "journalists" really are dumber than a box of rocks.

[baldeagle]

Is there a reason that the article had to let us know that the victim was black (x2) and the shooter was white? (Rhetorical question BTW.)

I know it's rhetorical, but the answer is, yes, there's a reason. The media are working hard to overturn stand your ground laws, and this story "proves" that the law is being used to kill "innocent" black children. Same meme as the Zimmerman story.

[baldeagle]

as i was sitting in the dentist office this morning waiting to get some fillings, HLN was reporting on this story. the lawyer of the shooter, Michael Dunn, said that Mr. Dunn saw a shotgun pointed at his jetta. that was the threat that supposedly happened. Don't know what the police found or whatnot, that's just what i heard.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/11/28 ... se-florida" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to this article, the shooter claimed he saw a gun, but no gun was found by the police. He fired 8 or 9 shots into a car full of teenagers, then left the scene because, he claimed, he was fearful of gang retaliation. There's obviously more going on here than the media are telling us, so it's impossible to say if the shooting was justified or not.