Teacher with CHL, gun in the car?

[drummer0415]

Howdy, new guy here and a licensed CHL'er. Been reading the forum for about 6 months now, but finally making a first post.

My wife is a teacher at a public school in Texas, has been wanting to get her CHL for a while, and is planning to do it soon, but she has questions about the legality of keeping a gun her vehicle while at school. I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I have heard many different things on whether or not this is legal and I can't find a definitive answer myself. Mainly, I have heard two different answers

1)It is state law that employees of the school cannot keep a gun in their vehicle, even if they have a CHL
2)It is up to the district policy whether employees of the school can keep a gun in their vehicle, CHL or not.

Can anyone definitely clear this up for me? Thanks.

Side Note: Even with the recent tragic school shooting event, that type of situation is honestly the least of our worries right now. So Believe it or not, this post is not related to what happened last week. It is merely coincidental timing. So even though it sounds like it, neither one of us are knee-jerk, run out and buy this or that type people. Like I said before, my wife has been wanting a CHL for a while, and I'm finally just getting around to doing the research and clearing up this question we both have.

ETA: I found this wording in the employee handbook for her school district. It is the only mention of firearms in the handbook. Not sure if it will help in answering my question or not.

"Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun,
are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs or other prohibited weapons onto school
premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisor."

[Ericstac]

My wife is a teacher as well. The way I see it, she can keep it in her car...

But someone recently told me their is a code specifically for teachers not allowing them to carry, even in the parking lot.. Still haven't seen the code though

[TexasCajun]

LC §52.061. RESTRICTION ON PROHIBITING EMPLOYEE ACCESS TO OR STORAGE OF FIREARM OR AMMUNITION. A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.

Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS. (a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee's employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee's duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;
(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:
(i) that contains the physical plant;
(ii) that is not open to the public; and
(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.
(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer's business. In this subsection, “premises” has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

According to 52.062, the "Parking Lot Law" does not apply to schools. Therefore #2 in your understanding of the Texas Penal Code would be correct. School districts fall outside of the provisions, but there is nothing in the code (that I've found) that prohibits a school district from adopting a policy that would allow in-vehicle weapon storage, or on-premise CHL possesion for that matter.

[punkndisorderly]

My undersranding: it is legal but, she does not have the protection afforded by the parking lot bill.

As such, she can lose her job for failure to follow district policies.

[JeepGuy79]

I work for a state university. I was told by the popo I can keep it locked in the jeep in the lot. Parking lots are not posted or anything.

[n5wd]

1)It is state law that employees of the school cannot keep a gun in their vehicle, even if they have a CHL
2)It is up to the district policy whether employees of the school can keep a gun in their vehicle, CHL or not.
Can anyone definitely clear this up for me?

The MPA (Motorist Protection Act), the law that lets average Joe Blow Texan carry a concealed firearm in his car does not force a school district to allow firearms on their property - but it does not prevent a school district from NOT prohibiting the firearm in the car, either. It's up to each individual school district to enact policies for their employees, but most of the school districts just take the boilerplate sample district policies from the TEA and enact them as their policies (which is why TEA publishes those policies as model policies). In other words, a district CAN prohibit their employees from having a gun in their car as a matter of district policy while the car is on district property (including parking lots) IF they choose to do so, but most districts don't. And your quote, below, is why they don't:

"Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun,
are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs or other prohibited weapons onto school
premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisor."

This is almost exactly the same as my district's policy on firearms and weapons - (ours adds in that a call to 911 would be appropriate in lieu of reporting it to their supervisor). But, basically it's the same as the model board policies published by TEA. What this does is say that an employee can not have a firearm (a) inside the school buildings or portions of a building or (b) on any grounds...where a school sponsored activity takes place. IANAL, but that does not seem to include my car, when it's parked in a staff parking lot. And, I've been told by folks who would be in charge of enforcing the policy, if it came down to it, that a gun in an employee's car is a non-issue as long as it stays concealed (which is, after all, the same thing the MPA provides for everyone else).

Now, if I drive over to a parking lot where the band kids are practicing, I might be in violation of the district policy, as well as the state law.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or
goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

So, as I read the law and my district's policy, as long as I'm parking in a place where student's aren't engaging in a sponsored school activity (i.e. a class or after school extracurricular activity), then I should be good to go with both.

That make sense?

Getting a member of the school administration to admit to that, officially, might be a bit more difficult, although I have considered asking our teacher's organization to ask for an official ruling from the district just because there is so much ambiguity possible in the reading of the policies and the law. Who knows - may just have to do that someday.

[Mel]

1)It is state law that employees of the school cannot keep a gun in their vehicle, even if they have a CHL
2)It is up to the district policy whether employees of the school can keep a gun in their vehicle, CHL or not.
Can anyone definitely clear this up for me?

The MPA (Motorist Protection Act), the law that lets average Joe Blow Texan carry a concealed firearm in his car does not force a school district to allow firearms on their property - but it does not prevent a school district from NOT prohibiting the firearm in the car, either. It's up to each individual school district to enact policies for their employees, but most of the school districts just take the boilerplate sample district policies from the TEA and enact them as their policies (which is why TEA publishes those policies as model policies). In other words, a district CAN prohibit their employees from having a gun in their car as a matter of district policy while the car is on district property (including parking lots) IF they choose to do so, but most districts don't. And your quote, below, is why they don't:

But doesn't MPA prohibit a concealed handgun within 1,000' of a school?
CHL, of course, is a different thing.

[drummer0415]

Ok so after doing a little more research and reading the responses here, I have come to the conclusion that she can't get in LEGAL trouble for keeping the gun in her car, but she could get fired if her school district's policy does not allow it.

That being said, here is the wording again from her employee handbook put our by the district. Can anyone help me decipher it and determine if it specifically prohibits her from keeping the gun in her car?

"Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun,
are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs or other prohibited weapons onto school
premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisor."

I know the guy above me had a different interpretation but the "or any grounds" part leads me to believe that they do not want her to keep a gun in her car, even in in the employee parking lot, and she most likely would be fired if they ever found it.

Can I get a second opinion?

[rubio]

Ok so after doing a little more research and reading the responses here, I have come to the conclusion that she can't get in LEGAL trouble for keeping the gun in her car, but she could get fired if her school district's policy does not allow it.

If she works for a government school, that's right. However, a private school is a business and can give 30.06 notice and then it's illegal because parking lot law doesn't apply to schools below college.

[glbedd53]

She needs to check the school district handbook. I work for a school district (not a teacher) and our particular firearms policy reads word for word like the state law. That told me I'm legal to have it in my truck. If I didn't have a CHL I would be in violation because my building is within 1000 ft. of two, maybe three schools.

[JJVP]

1)It is state law that employees of the school cannot keep a gun in their vehicle, even if they have a CHL
2)It is up to the district policy whether employees of the school can keep a gun in their vehicle, CHL or not.
Can anyone definitely clear this up for me?

The MPA (Motorist Protection Act), the law that lets average Joe Blow Texan carry a concealed firearm in his car does not force a school district to allow firearms on their property - but it does not prevent a school district from NOT prohibiting the firearm in the car, either. It's up to each individual school district to enact policies for their employees, but most of the school districts just take the boilerplate sample district policies from the TEA and enact them as their policies (which is why TEA publishes those policies as model policies). In other words, a district CAN prohibit their employees from having a gun in their car as a matter of district policy while the car is on district property (including parking lots) IF they choose to do so, but most districts don't. And your quote, below, is why they don't:

But doesn't MPA prohibit a concealed handgun within 1,000' of a school?
CHL, of course, is a different thing.

It is federal law (GFSZA) that prohibits firearm possession within 1,000' of a school, not MPA. GFSZA allows carry within 1,000' of a school for those with carry licenses issued by the state where the school resides.

[Mel]

But doesn't MPA prohibit a concealed handgun within 1,000' of a school?
CHL, of course, is a different thing.[/quote]

It is federal law (GFSZA) that prohibits firearm possession within 1,000' of a school, not MPA. GFSZA allows carry within 1,000' of a school for those with carry licenses issued by the state where the school resides.[/quote]

OK, but my point was that MPA does not circumvent that law and "allow" carrying within 1,000' of a school.
Bottom line, you still can't carry within 1,000" of school without a valid CHL.

[grim-bob]

"Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun,
are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs or other prohibited weapons onto school
premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisor."

I know the guy above me had a different interpretation but the "or any grounds" part leads me to believe that they do not want her to keep a gun in her car, even in in the employee parking lot, and she most likely would be fired if they ever found it.

Can I get a second opinion?

You have to read the complete setence on the "or any grounds" statement; "any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place". That is wording pulled directly from the state law (not going to look it up cause I am lazy). It is basically saying that you can't have in a building or be carrying it at a school sponsored event on grounds being used at that time. So for example the band is practicing in the parking lot. She can't carry in the parking lot at that time in the presence of the band. Without the band there she could walk around the parking lot carrying to her heart's content.

But that wording is specific to carrying. It really doesn't address storeage of the firearm in a car so I think you are still in a grey area.and she could be fired if they so chose.

[CC Italian]

I am a Texas school teacher. The correct answer is #2. My school district prohibits any weapons on any school property if you are faculty or staff. So I can not carry in my car or I can be terminated immediately. Many districts have adopted this policy in the last few years. The gun is useless in the car anyways. By the time I ran out to the car got my gun and ran back the campus police would be at the school if they weren't there already, at least in my school district. Response times are very fast and the campus police practice often.

Of course 3 minutes is a lifetime in a situation like the one in Connecticut. Plus I couldn't leave the kids alone in the classroom and I would probably get shot by the officers responding if they saw me in the hallway with a firearm. It would be better if the teachers could carry and take up a defensive position in their classrooms behind locked doors while law enforcement sweeps the school for the shooter. Moving students out of the classroom in an active shooter situation is a bad idea, especially if they are little kids. They are hard to move fast and get frightened easily.

Also even if they pass a law allowing chls in schools I still think most districts would have grounds for termination clauses in employee contracts. So maybe the parents will be able to get around it but I don't think the staff will. If anything they will hire more LEOs and beef up security. The education system has strict no gun policies.

[CC Italian]

"Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun,
are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs or other prohibited weapons onto school
premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisor."

The way I read this is she can carry in her car. Why?

onto school premises (i.e., building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school sponsored activity takes place.

The only problem with this is that if for some reason they hold a school sponsored activity in the parking lot. At my school the band sometimes practices in the parking lot. My district policy says on all school property.

Take it for what you will. I am not an attorney and it stills doesn't change the fact that she can't bring the firearm into the school without legal trouble. Like I said the firearm is pretty much useless in the car imo. If you live out in the country where it takes 10 +minutes for officers to respond is one thing but in the suburbs where I live they would probably get there before I could run out to my car and get back in.