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Sitting around visiting on Saturday, when my friend who knows that I carry asked me this question: Theoretically, if I was out shopping on Black Friday and happened to be in the crazy crowds that bull rush the front door of say a Walmart; and I happen to get tripped in the mad rush and the "getting trampled to death scenario" began to unfold...Would I have any right with pulling my gun? I would be in fear of my life. To me, this sounds like a lose lose situation. It would be better to pull it rather than being trampled to death, but I don't know. I was curious what everyone else thought on this one.


One point that was brought up by my buddy was this : The person(s) that tripped or trampled you may not have done it intentionally. My counter to that was if I have a negligent discharge in my house it goes through a wall and kills the next door neighbors kid in the back yard, I still have to be liable for my actions. Anyways, just curious on what everyone thinks. Thanks in advance for any input!

Sounds like a lose-lose situation, best bet is not put yourself in that kind of position in the first place. I have yet to ever attend a black friday sale.

suthdj wrote:Sounds like a lose-lose situation, best bet is not put yourself in that kind of position in the first place. I have yet to ever attend a black friday sale.

There is nothing that any store is selling at any price to put myself in the middle of that kind of crush of people. That is just too many people too close in my personal space for me to ever take that risk. If nothing else, those situations are a pickpocket's delight.

suthdj wrote:Sounds like a lose-lose situation, best bet is not put yourself in that kind of position in the first place. I have yet to ever attend a black friday sale.

I have never attended one either, and never will. My girlfriend is taking her CHL class next month. I am going have her have the instructor the same question. It's one of those "what if" deals that I can't stop thinking about, lol.

I don't see how pulling a gun is going to help with a stampeding crowd.

Brings to light how some succumb to everything looking like a nail when they have a hammer on their hand theory.

chasfm11 wrote:

suthdj wrote:Sounds like a lose-lose situation, best bet is not put yourself in that kind of position in the first place. I have yet to ever attend a black friday sale.

There is nothing that any store is selling at any price to put myself in the middle of that kind of crush of people. That is just too many people too close in my personal space for me to ever take that risk. If nothing else, those situations are a pickpocket's delight.

THIS ^^

OP.. I believe your initial response was correct....
Since you are not the target of a crime, but rather the unfortunate victim of circumstance, you have no justifiable reason for using your gun. The person trampling you is doing so to avoid being trampled by someone behind them. They are not using force against you specifically.

Another example of circumstance... Would you be justified in shooting the driver of a vehicle that was sliding down an icy roadway headed straight for you?

mojo84 wrote:I don't see how pulling a gun is going to help with a stampeding crowd.

This would be my first question. Could you reasonably expect pulling or even firing a gun to produce a better outcome than not? Seems to me that it might cause the people immediately around you to try to pull back but they're still being pushed by the rest of the mob and can't do anything. More likely, someone sees it and starts screaming about a gun and the mob is suddenly even more frantic and you're likely to sustain even more damage. If you actually fire shots, same frantic mob issue. I just don't see a gun being much help.

Avoid those crowds. Even if you were there for some crazy reason, do you know exactly who tripped you? Even if you did, it doesn't necessarily prove intent like someone attacking you with a knife would. Plus, in that size crowd the possibility of collateral damage is huge.

Best just to avoid the situation altogether and catch up on your sleep.

Definitely a lose/lose situation. If someone where to do that, and live, I would be willing to be they would face charges.

Agree...stupid is, stupid does...lol.

Anyone degenerate enough to even THINK about "shopping" on Black Friday, Moonlight Madness Sales, or related retail store "sales propaganda" is truly not the sharpest tool in the box. There are stories of people subjecting themselves to "Mortal Combat" or other Contact Sports to allegedly "save" $1, $2 or similar promotional discounts.

In my opinion...when I can't find what I need at one of our local small town stores, or over the internet, then I always plan to buy something when "other people" are still at work, etc. And...I don't go to a store after dark...its called "Plan Ahead" ... :)

Simple answer to the OP - No, you would not be justified in shooting. If you did (and survived) you would more than likely spend the rest of your days behind bars.

RoyGBiv wrote:OP.. I believe your initial response was correct....
Since you are not the target of a crime, but rather the unfortunate victim of circumstance, you have no justifiable reason for using your gun. The person trampling you is doing so to avoid being trampled by someone behind them. They are not using force against you specifically.

However, if I was in the same Black Friday chaos and a woman pulled a taser on me, like happened last Friday, I think I would take a different viewpoint. YMMV

Larry

Something else to think about in this situation would be the backdrop.... nothing but a wall of human flesh and an invitation to disaster if you pulled (and used) your weapon.

The answer is obvious,, and I still am laughing about black fridays...