"Failure to Carry" - CHL license.

[fortworthdude]

I have a CHL and 'carry' 99% of the time. Last week when I left the house I was carrying my weapon but later found I had forgotten to take my billfold with me. My CHL is in my billfold. What are the consequenses for not actually having my license on my person when carrying even though licensed to do so? Please advise.

[WildBill]

I have a CHL and 'carry' 99% of the time. Last week when I left the house I was carrying my weapon but later found I had forgotten to take my billfold with me. My CHL is in my billfold. What are the consequenses for not actually having my license on my person when carrying even though licensed to do so? Please advise.

IANAL, but as I understand there is no penalty. However you might be subject to questions and additional scrutiny by the LEO who has requested your ID.

[Bill O'Rights]

I have a CHL and 'carry' 99% of the time. Last week when I left the house I was carrying my weapon but later found I had forgotten to take my billfold with me. My CHL is in my billfold. What are the consequenses for not actually having my license on my person when carrying even though licensed to do so? Please advise.

Legally it's the same as not being licensed. The relevant law is in 46.15 Texas Penal Code.

In practice, if you're lucky the DA will cut you some slack. If you're really lucky the cop will cut you some slack.

[WildBill]

I have a CHL and 'carry' 99% of the time. Last week when I left the house I was carrying my weapon but later found I had forgotten to take my billfold with me. My CHL is in my billfold. What are the consequenses for not actually having my license on my person when carrying even though licensed to do so? Please advise.

Legally it's the same as not being licensed. The relevant law is in 46.15 Texas Penal Code.

In practice, if you're lucky the DA will cut you some slack. If you're really lucky the cop will cut you some slack.

I don't think that is true.

Think about it. If you were driving and didn't have your DL. It doesn't mean you are not licensed.

Not having proof of insurance in your car doesn't mean you are not insured.

[Bill O'Rights]

Legally it's the same as not being licensed. The relevant law is in 46.15 Texas Penal Code.

I don't think that is true.

Think about it. If you were driving and didn't have your DL. It doesn't mean you are not licensed.

Not having proof of insurance in your car doesn't mean you are not insured.

The penal code is different than the transportation code.

[WildBill]

Legally it's the same as not being licensed. The relevant law is in 46.15 Texas Penal Code.

I don't think that is true.

Think about it. If you were driving and didn't have your DL. It doesn't mean you are not licensed.

Not having proof of insurance in your car doesn't mean you are not insured.

The penal code is different than the transportation code.

So is the Health and Safety Code.

[fortworthdude]

Well I have read your responses and looked at the 46.15 Texas Penal Code. As usual the law is written in a convoluted and confusing way so as to leave no-one knowing really what the law is and what it stands for, that including the attorneys who designed it that way so as to litigate and generate billable hours. It makes one want to say screw the law and live by the creed that it is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. Even if I asked an attorney or a police officer the answer to my question another would interpret it differently. Thanks for taking a run at the answer. My opinion is that it is better to be carrying without my license on my person than not to be carrying. I am not going to sweat it and plead ignorant remorse if required.

[RetNavy]

Last Saturday I did the same thing.... took a nephew to his baseball game and stopped at Whataburger to get meals for my kids... vehicle in front of me so I reached to get my wallet..... no wallet... no Dl... no CHL.... NO MONEY..... fortunately could get out of the drive thru no problem... driving home i rationalized if pulled over could get a ticket for no DL.... could use the MPA for the weapon (hopefully)

[Wodathunkit]

My opinion is that it is better to be carrying without my license on my person than not to be carrying. I am not going to sweat it and plead ignorant remorse if required.

I didn't understand your original post, did you get cited for not carrying your license? As to your follow up, why not just carry your license anyway? I mean, if you forgot.....it is a mistake, and mistakes happen, but if You typically drive around without carrying a license, or hunt and fish without those it sounds a bit irresponsible to me.

[Jumping Frog]

The penal code is different than the transportation code.

True.

However, there are similarities in that the officer can pull up proof of license status for both drivers licenses and concealed handgun licenses on their terminal, so the officer knows you are licensed. I also carry a picture of my driver license and all of my concealed handgun licenses on my iPhone and can show that to the officer as well. (I have forgotten my wallet before, or I have forgotten my phone before, but I haven't fogotten both of them at the same time.)

That said, while it is still technically illegal, either the officer is a jerk or a person must have seriously irritated the officer for the officer to cite the individual when the officer already knows they possess a license.

[fortworthdude]

I thought my original post was pretty clear. I forgot my billfold. It was not a rebellious attempt to circumvent the law
I forgot my billfold. I then asked what the legal position was about forgetting my billfold. No ambiguity there. I then stated that if it happens again I'm not going to sweat it. I said nothing about leaving the house with bravado in mind and just flatly ignoring the law. My comments really did not deserve your response.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I have a CHL and 'carry' 99% of the time. Last week when I left the house I was carrying my weapon but later found I had forgotten to take my billfold with me. My CHL is in my billfold. What are the consequenses for not actually having my license on my person when carrying even though licensed to do so? Please advise.

This is a fairly common occurrence and it isn't a problem. People are supposed to have their driver's license on them when they are driving, but LEOs can check by their DL number or name and DOB. When doing so, their status as a CHL will also be available to the officer.

I've never heard of a single case where a CHL has been prosecuted for not having their CHL on their person, even prior to 2009 when the penalties for failing to display were repealed.

Chas.

[Oldgringo]

I have left home without my gun and I have left home without my phone; I'm trying to think of the last time I left home without my wallet.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Legally it's the same as not being licensed. The relevant law is in 46.15 Texas Penal Code.

I don't think that is true.

Think about it. If you were driving and didn't have your DL. It doesn't mean you are not licensed.

Not having proof of insurance in your car doesn't mean you are not insured.

The penal code is different than the transportation code.

The Transportation Code requires a driver to have their DL on their person when driving and to display it to an officer upon demand. Failure to do so carries criminal penalties. The Code provides for a defense to prosecution if the driver produces a license in court, but the lack of such a provision in Chp. 46 does not mean that producing a license in court will be meaningless. In law, to argue otherwise is called exalting form over substance. If you know of anyone being charged and going to trial for failing to have their CHL on their person, please provide that information.

Chas.

Sec. 521.025. LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON DEMAND; CRIMINAL PENALTY. (a) A person required to hold a license under Section 521.021 shall:

• (1) have in the person's possession while operating a motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
  
  (2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate, court officer, or peace officer.[/;ist]
  
  (b) A peace officer may stop and detain a person operating a motor vehicle to determine if the person has a driver's license as required by this section.
  
  (c) A person who violates this section commits an offense. An offense under this subsection is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that:
  
  • (1) for a second conviction within one year after the date of the first conviction, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than $25 or more than $200;
    
    (2) for a third or subsequent conviction within one year after the date of the second conviction the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by:
    
    • (A) a fine of not less than $25 or more than $500;
      
      (B) confinement in the county jail for not less than 72 hours or more than six months; or
      
      (C) both the fine and confinement; and
    (3) if it is shown on the trial of the offense that at the time of the offense the person was operating the motor vehicle in violation of Section 601.191 and caused or was at fault in a motor vehicle accident that resulted in serious bodily injury to or the death of another person, an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
  (d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section if the person charged produces in court a driver's license:
  
  • (1) issued to that person;
    
    (2) appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
    
    (3) valid at the time of the arrest for the offense.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I have left home without my gun and I have left home without my phone; I'm trying to think of the last time I left home without my wallet.

I did two weeks ago. It was the first time in decades, but it happened.

Chas.