Will I be denied?

[Hhg]

Back in 2004 I made a stupid mistake and shoplifted a t shirt and was convicted, paid my fine of 500 bucks and didn't have to spend any time in jail but has to go through a counseling (basically paying 50 bucks a month to a counselor) and checking in with a probation officer for 6 months. I got it expunged last year (didn't realize until then I could do that) I was 31yrs old when I was arrested and it was in Mississippi. I have all my info on the expungement but u haven't checked to see if I have a record but I did have a background check for employment and it didn't show
Up there, what do I do?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Welcome to the Forum.

You will not be denied based on the T-shirt conviction. That's a misdemeanor and they exclude you only for 5 years. Also, if it truly has been expunged, then it wouldn't have been disqualifying even if the 5 years had not already expired. Under Texas law, if something has been expunged from your record, you can legally deny the conviction and even the arrest. You can deny it under oath. That said, this applies if the expungement in the other state meets the expungement requirements in Texas and many do not. The safest route would be to disclose the arrest on the CHL application and provide the supporting documents to DPS. Alternatively, you could find out if expungement in Mississippi is the same as in Texas.

Chas.

[Hhg]

Ok, I may email the guy that did my expungement and see what he says, but if I do list it you don't think it can be held against me? I have a clean record since then. I have never had any problems getting approved for guns nor did I have any problems getting my drivers license here either.

[Keith B]

As Charles stated, it is past the 5 years now, so even without the expungement you would be eligible as it was just a misdemeanor theft charge. Listing it will not cause a denial.

[Hhg]

Ok thank you for all your help!! I will go on and send in the application!!

[Charles L. Cotton]

Ok, I may email the guy that did my expungement and see what he says, but if I do list it you don't think it can be held against me? I have a clean record since then. I have never had any problems getting approved for guns nor did I have any problems getting my drivers license here either.

Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:

(A) expunged;


Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to carry a concealed handgun if the person:

(3) has not been convicted of a felony;

(4) is not charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense, or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense, or of a felony under an information or indictment;

(8) has not, in the five years preceding the date of application, been convicted of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense or of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense;

[Hhg]

So does that mean I don't need to list it?

[Hhg]

The reason I am wanting one is so I can carry my Taurus 38 in my car, my husband thinks I need to since I work in a area that crime has really gotten worse in so he wants me to have that option if I need it. I have been a responsible hunter since I was a child and understand what responsible gun ownership is.

[Keith B]

To know if you need to list it, you need to follow Charles advice and see if the Mississippi expungement is legally the same as Texas. If it is, then you do not. It really won't hurt you to list it anyway as it is past the date.

As for carrying in your vehicle, you can do that without a CHL. The Motorist Protection Act was passed in 2009 and allows people who can legally posses a firearm to keep it in the vehicle. Here's a good primer http://healylaw.com/SPH_Jan-Feb_2012_MPA.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 2011 the Employee Parking Lot bill was passed that prohibits most employers from preventing you in keeping a firearm in your personal vehicle on their parking lot http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state ... =10507&ps=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, while a CHL will allow you to carry outside of your vehicle, if you meet the requirements you can carry without the license in your car.

[Hhg]

The effect of an expungement is to “to restore the person, in the contemplation of the law, to the status he occupied before” his or her arrest. Miss. Code Ann. § 41-29-150(d)(2) (Rev. 2009); Miss. Code Ann. § 99-19-71(3) (Rev. 2007). Further, Mississippi law states that “No person as to whom an expunction order has been entered shall be held thereafter under any provision of law to be guilty of perjury or to have otherwise given a false statement by reason of his failure to recite or acknowledge such arrest, indictment or conviction in response to any inquiry made of him for any purpose other than the purpose of determining, in any subsequent proceedings under this section, whether the person is a first offender.” Miss. Code Ann. § 99-19-71(3) (Rev. 2007).
Does it seem to be the same?

[gringo pistolero]

You have two options.
1. You can disclose it and document the disposition. Misdemeanor shoplifting in 2004 won't disqualify you, whether or not it was expunged.
2. You can keep quiet and hope Texas DPS doesn't find any record of your arrest. If they do, you got some 'splaining to do.

The choice is yours.

[WildBill]

I am not a lawyer, nor am I offering advice.

IMO, according to Texas and Mississippi law, the OP has never been arrested so he doesn't have to put anything on his application.

If the record is expunged then the DPS can not find it.

The DPS have attorneys on their staff who know how to deal with expunged records.

If by some chance the arrest showed up on a DPS background search the OP would not have to explain anything.

IMO, the only reason for listing it would be the OP's peace of mind while she is waiting for her CHL to show up in the mail.

[Unicorn Rancher]

If by some chance the arrest showed up on a DPS background search the OP would not have to explain anything.

That's interesting. If an out of state arrest pops during the background check, and the applicant didn't list any arrests, DPS won't seek an explanation? Do they just ignore any discrepancies? I heard applications are processed faster now, but hoped it wasn't from cutting corners.

[WildBill]

If by some chance the arrest showed up on a DPS background search the OP would not have to explain anything.

That's interesting. If an out of state arrest pops during the background check, and the applicant didn't list any arrests, DPS won't seek an explanation? Do they just ignore any discrepancies? I heard applications are processed faster now, but hoped it wasn't from cutting corners.

Applications may be processed faster, but I don't believe the DPS is cutting corners. They are very professional and thorough and would not ignore any discrepancies.

Many processes become faster and more efficient as the people get used to them. Also there have been many improvements in processing fingerprints and photographs and others that I am not aware.

My rational is that expunged records are not supposed to show up, so if DPS searched Mississippi records they would not find any arrest records since it has been expunged. According to the law, the arrest doesn't exist. If the clerks did not follow the court order to expunge, they would be the people at fault, not the applicant.

IMO there is a slight chance that a record could show up, but it should show expunged. If it does showed as expunged, the DPS staff lawyers know that it doesn't have to be listed.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but I don't think that most people understand about expungement. Please reread Charles Cotton's posts:

Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:

(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:

(A) expunged;

Under Texas law, if something has been expunged from your record, you can legally deny the conviction and even the arrest. You can deny it under oath. Chas.

I have done some research into the laws of Mississippi, and I believe that the expunge order would meet the requirements under Texas law. That said, I am not offering legal advice.
The only advice I would give in this matter is to listen to Charles Cotton. He knows what he is doing.

[Hhg]

Thanks y'all, I think I may just leave it off and see what happens, I have all the paperwork that's shows the expungement if I have to show anything. Y'all have been a big help!!