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As it stands, law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms into places that LTC holders are not. Many people say this is because these officers are better trained than LTC holders. To eliminate that argument, would you support legislation for an "advanced" license that allows concealed carry into currently off-limits places (not 30.07 yet) but has standards (i.e. frequent training/qualification, higher shooting score) similar to or perhaps even higher than what law enforcement has to meet?

I was curious how much support there would be for that among LTC holders. Any input?

no because LEO's have the same score requirements we do

I don't think you'd get much support for that in Austin, even if you mandated 2 weeks at Gunsite.

People are never going to think of LTC holders as "better shots than police" even if it was true (which it probably already is).

I would support this. As long as there is some way of removing many of the places where LTC holders can't carry. It should be a priority in 2017 and there was a poll here earlier and a majority of forum members supported less restricted carry places over other options. I'll see if I can find it.

Do you really want to break down LTC as superior and inferior holders? Are all LEO of equal skill? I am for expansion of our ability to enter facilities but I don't support a 2 standard class of LTC. I never did understand the red 51% alcohol sign. I don't drink, why should I not be able to carry?

JP171 wrote:no because LEO's have the same score requirements we do

Perhaps the numerical score requirements are the same but the research I've done indicates the overall standards are significantly higher than the LTC shooting test. For instance, I have found departmental standards that require drawing from a holster and shooting within a time limit (no holster work in Texas LTC), malfunction drills, strong hand/weak hand shooting, etc. Based on research I've done, every law enforcement agency's standards are higher than Texas LTC. Plus, LEO qualification is semiannual or annual whereas LTC is only every five years.

I think Chas. should take the lead on priorities in 2017. There were a lot of important issues that took the back seat for LTC. Perhaps he will lay out some agenda items he is considering at some point. At least, that seemed like LTC sucked the air out of the room, and other stuff did not get the attention it deserved.

By the 17 session, there should be a little history on LTC. I imagine there will be tweaks, as well as something addressing non-compliant signage. The only way to enforce compliant signage would be fines, probably via a ticket issued by any LEO or something along those lines.

TxAggieEngineer wrote:

JP171 wrote:no because LEO's have the same score requirements we do

Perhaps the numerical score requirements are the same but the research I've done indicates the overall standards are significantly higher than the LTC shooting test. For instance, I have found departmental standards that require drawing from a holster and shooting within a time limit (no holster work in Texas LTC), malfunction drills, strong hand/weak hand shooting, etc. Based on research I've done, every law enforcement agency's standards are higher than Texas LTC. Plus, LEO qualification is semiannual or annual whereas LTC is only every five years.

actually LTC you only qualify once.

That being said I don't think how well you shoot is the issue when it comes to OC

zero4o3 wrote:
actually LTC you only qualify once.

That being said I don't think how well you shoot is the issue when it comes to OC

Ahhh, I thought re-qualification was required until the third renewal. Good to know.

In my original post, I specifically mentioned concealed and excluded open carry because I realize OC has a different set of issues.

TxAggieEngineer wrote:

JP171 wrote:no because LEO's have the same score requirements we do

Perhaps the numerical score requirements are the same but the research I've done indicates the overall standards are significantly higher than the LTC shooting test. For instance, I have found departmental standards that require drawing from a holster and shooting within a time limit (no holster work in Texas LTC), malfunction drills, strong hand/weak hand shooting, etc. Based on research I've done, every law enforcement agency's standards are higher than Texas LTC. Plus, LEO qualification is semiannual or annual whereas LTC is only every five years.

well golly Wilbur why don't we jus go an make em all confirm to all of the military pistol qualification table with a perefect score foran they kin carry a bad gun!

TxAggieEngineer wrote:As it stands, law enforcement officers are allowed to carry firearms into places that LTC holders are not. Many people say this is because these officers are better trained than LTC holders. To eliminate that argument, would you support legislation for an "advanced" license that allows concealed carry into currently off-limits places (not 30.07 yet) but has standards (i.e. frequent training/qualification, higher shooting score) similar to or perhaps even higher than what law enforcement has to meet?

I was curious how much support there would be for that among LTC holders. Any input?

Bad idea.

Instead, in the 2017 legislative session, look for a bill similar to last session's HB 308. This time, we hope to see a priority put on it by the NRA and TSRA. It appears there may be quite a bit of support for this in Austin.

rotor wrote:Do you really want to break down LTC as superior and inferior holders? Are all LEO of equal skill? I am for expansion of our ability to enter facilities but I don't support a 2 standard class of LTC. I never did understand the red 51% alcohol sign. I don't drink, why should I not be able to carry?

I understand what you're saying. I too think the 51% rule is silly since it's already illegal for an armed LTC holder to be intoxicated. No, not all LEO's are of equal skill but I would say the average LEO is better than the average LTC holder.

Do you think all the 30.06 signs (I'm specifically excluding anything related to OC now) are because people feel that LTC holders are not adequately trained or do you feel they're just trying to make a political statement? If it's the former, how would we as an LTC community address that and obtain additional benefits?

Pawpaw wrote: Instead, in the 2017 legislative session, look for a bill similar to last session's HB 308.

If I'm reading that correctly, HB 308 (46.15(5)(a)(5) would essentially invalidate 30.06 signs. Is that correct?

I was not aware of that bill.

Interesting responses so far. A question from one of my follow-ups... Do you think businesses that post 30.06/07 signs don't trust that LTC holders are adequately trained and qualified (meaning, they don't start shaking in their boots when a LEO walks in) or are they just trying to make a political statement? If it's the former, how do we address that?

TxAggieEngineer wrote:

JP171 wrote:no because LEO's have the same score requirements we do

Perhaps the numerical score requirements are the same but the research I've done indicates the overall standards are significantly higher than the LTC shooting test. For instance, I have found departmental standards that require drawing from a holster and shooting within a time limit (no holster work in Texas LTC), malfunction drills, strong hand/weak hand shooting, etc. Based on research I've done, every law enforcement agency's standards are higher than Texas LTC. Plus, LEO qualification is semiannual or annual whereas LTC is only every five years.

Add timed shooting from anchor point, reloads, and shooting from 40yrds. When my fiancé took her CHL course I went along and go to shoot during their proficiency. It was like taking a 1st grade spelling test.