TexasCHLforum.com

Hi all. Yep, forum newb here. Post #1. Having seen a lot more 30.06 and 30.07 postings lately, I thought I'd better get my butt in gear and start posting up some stuff. I know many here are vocal about this, but I'm just becoming so because I'm seeing some of my favorite businesses post signs.

If you run across an establishment that has recently posted 30.06 and/or 30.07 signage, have a rational discussion with the decision makers in that business. Having a had several such discussions myself, I'm finding that the uneducated are equating all forms of carry with open carry.

Personally, I am not an open carry advocate for a variety of reasons and my comments here are biased toward concealed carry. My intent in posting isn't to start an open vs concealed carry discussion, that horse has been beaten to death. It's to let you know that many business owners and managers are ignorant of the differences between 30.06 and 30.07. All they hear is "blah, blah-carry" and that it has to do with a gun, which immediately sparks a negative image in their mind. There are dozens of other posts and resources out there with information we can use showing that licensed handgun carriers are law-abiding, background checked, etc, etc. The cards others have made are a great idea.

The antis are being vocal and have organized efforts to get signage wherever they can, so we as individuals need to educate business owners in a responsible, even-keeled manner that conveys respect for their establishment. I had such a discussion yesterday with the general manager of the dealership where I took my wife's car to have a recall item addressed. I noticed that they had recently posted 30.06/30.07 since my last service visit, so I took the opportunity to discuss my displeasure with the general manager. He assured me that he would get back to me. Part of the discussion was about their improper signage.

I received the following email this morning.

Good morning, this is Seth, General Manager at Hiley Hyundai. I met you briefly yesterday and you expressed your concern about our gun rules here at the store. I followed up with the owner, Jason Hiley, on the situation as I assured you I would. He told me that personally, he would have preferred to remain neutral, but that with the recent open carry law he was forced to take a stance. When I asked him about this, he told me that he felt it would affect less people by not allowing guns in the store than it would by allowing them. He personally has no issues with guns whatsoever; it appears that most of the dealers in the DFW area took the same stance as well. I also addressed the compliance of our signage with him as far as the way the signs were facing and them not being on contrasting backgrounds and that will be fixed.

We respect your rights to carry a gun and the Texas laws. We also do want your business here at the store while we may or may not receive it moving forward. I also do want to personally thank you for your business with us yesterday and in the past. If you are planning on doing your service work elsewhere, I would appreciate you letting me know if you find dealership that does allow open carry inside it as well. It is our intention to serve the community around here to the best of our ability, even though we can’t always please everyone. I appreciate your time yesterday and do hope to see you again.

My response:

Seth, thank you for the immediate follow up.

First, I completely understand Jason’s perspective on not wanting openly displayed firearms in his dealership(s). To the uninitiated, they can be cause for alarm. Personally, I eschew open carry for this and other reasons.

However, Jason’s position and signage prohibit both open and concealed carry. The 30.06 reference blocks concealed carry, and 30.07 prohibits open carry. To prevent both concealed and open carry, both 30.06 and 30.07 signs must be displayed in a very precise manner with respect to size, verbiage, and contrast. However, either may be displayed independently and carries the weight of law so long as it meets those requirements.

While Jason is correct that many dealerships and other businesses are posting 30.07 signage only (open carry prohibition), most are NOT posting 30.06 (concealed carry). I have been in several dealerships in the last 30 days as I am in the market for a new truck and have seen only a handful of either postings. As I did with you, I let them know that their stance on legally carried firearms has cost them a potential sale.

For what it’s worth, Vandergriff Hyundai in Arlington does not currently display either 30.06 or 30.07 signage. I called there this morning to inquire. Since I am in Arlington several times a month for business, I will take my business there and let others in my sphere of influence know about their lack of signage.

Finally, if Jason were to only post 30.07 signage at Hiley Hydundai and continue to allow concealed carry, I would reconsider my position. If it were possible to somehow know who’s carrying concealed, I think he would find that he’s had dozens, if not hundreds, of concealed carriers in his business before and has never had an issue.

I appreciate your time and attention to this matter.

I haven't yet received a response, but I'll post up here if I get one.

In short, if a business you like and want to continue patronizing has recently posted signage, say something because they may not be entirely clear on what they've posted and what the consequences are. Do it with respect.

In talking to car dealers, here is a point that all dealers and customers need to consider. A person that brings their car to a dealership's service department will have to disarm and leave that gun in the car, while surrendering the keys, if no form of carry is allowed. This is not a good situation for the customer or the dealer. Many dealers may not have considered this.

BTW.... I am a car dealer in the Houston area. We post neither 30.06 or 30.07. We have had a couple of open carriers and one customer that brought an open carrier to management's attention. So far, just a simple explanation that it is legal is all that was needed.

TXBO wrote:In talking to car dealers, here is a point that all dealers and customers need to consider. A person that brings their car to a dealership's service department will have to disarm and leave that gun in the car, while surrendering the keys, if no form of carry is allowed. This is not a good situation for the customer or the dealer. Many dealers may not have considered this.

BTW.... I am a car dealer in the Houston area. We post neither 30.06 or 30.07. We have had a couple of open carriers and one customer that brought an open carrier to management's attention. So far, just a simple explanation that it is legal is all that was needed.

Since my wife was dropping her car off and I had my truck, this thought never occurred to me. Great point.

Might have to send a follow up email.

thestudiokid wrote:

TXBO wrote:In talking to car dealers, here is a point that all dealers and customers need to consider. A person that brings their car to a dealership's service department will have to disarm and leave that gun in the car, while surrendering the keys, if no form of carry is allowed. This is not a good situation for the customer or the dealer. Many dealers may not have considered this.

BTW.... I am a car dealer in the Houston area. We post neither 30.06 or 30.07. We have had a couple of open carriers and one customer that brought an open carrier to management's attention. So far, just a simple explanation that it is legal is all that was needed.

Since my wife was dropping her car off and I had my truck, this thought never occurred to me. Great point.

Might have to send a follow up email.

You can tell them you spoke with another dealer that doesn't post at all. let them know that I'm concerned with customers leaving their gun in the car during appraials and service visits. Something for all dealers to consider.

thestudiokid wrote:Hi all. Yep, forum newb here. Post #1....
"Good morning, this is Seth, General Manager at Hiley Hyundai.....I also addressed the compliance of our signage with him as far as the way the signs were facing and them not being on contrasting backgrounds and that will be fixed"

I know that this is not the main thrust of your post but as you hang around in here I think you will find, it's not in our best interest to suggest correcting invalid signs. I think most if not all of us like the idea of educating on the difference between 30.07 and 30.06 but it doesn't help us to make sure businesses put up compliant signs. I'm not advocating walking passed a non-compliant sign but if I happened to miss it or for whatever reason I end up going in and something happens, I'd prefer the sign had been left invalid.

Again, I'm not advocating waking passed an invalid sing and I do support your main point of educating on the difference between30.07 and 30.06.

jerry_r60 wrote:

thestudiokid wrote:Hi all. Yep, forum newb here. Post #1....
"Good morning, this is Seth, General Manager at Hiley Hyundai.....I also addressed the compliance of our signage with him as far as the way the signs were facing and them not being on contrasting backgrounds and that will be fixed"

I know that this is not the main thrust of your post but as you hang around in here I think you will find, it's not in our best interest to suggest correcting invalid signs. I think most if not all of us like the idea of educating on the difference between 30.07 and 30.06 but it doesn't help us to make sure businesses put up compliant signs. I'm not advocating walking passed a non-compliant sign but if I happened to miss it or for whatever reason I end up going in and something happens, I'd prefer the sign had been left invalid.

Again, I'm not advocating waking passed an invalid sing and I do support your main point of educating on the difference between30.07 and 30.06.

Jerry,

I do agree with you that very few of us suggest educating them about non-compliant signs. However, the quote above in the OP was from a letter that the OP received, where the manager had the discussion with the owner... The OP didn't say that he had the discussion.

TXBO wrote:In talking to car dealers, here is a point that all dealers and customers need to consider. A person that brings their car to a dealership's service department will have to disarm and leave that gun in the car, while surrendering the keys, if no form of carry is allowed. This is not a good situation for the customer or the dealer. Many dealers may not have considered this.

they could get effective consent to transport it from one car to another.

Vol Texan wrote:

jerry_r60 wrote:

thestudiokid wrote:Hi all. Yep, forum newb here. Post #1....
"Good morning, this is Seth, General Manager at Hiley Hyundai.....I also addressed the compliance of our signage with him as far as the way the signs were facing and them not being on contrasting backgrounds and that will be fixed"

I know that this is not the main thrust of your post but as you hang around in here I think you will find, it's not in our best interest to suggest correcting invalid signs. I think most if not all of us like the idea of educating on the difference between 30.07 and 30.06 but it doesn't help us to make sure businesses put up compliant signs. I'm not advocating walking passed a non-compliant sign but if I happened to miss it or for whatever reason I end up going in and something happens, I'd prefer the sign had been left invalid.

Again, I'm not advocating waking passed an invalid sing and I do support your main point of educating on the difference between30.07 and 30.06.

Jerry,

I do agree with you that very few of us suggest educating them about non-compliant signs. However, the quote above in the OP was from a letter that the OP received, where the manager had the discussion with the owner... The OP didn't say that he had the discussion.

Actually, I did have the discussion with the GM, but he actually brought it up when he noticed the direction of the sign as we were talking about it just outside in the service bay. This issue came up because the sign was posted on inside of the door to the service department, facing inward. It was backwards when you walked in from outside. When you enter, you immediately face left to address the service writer and the sign is correctly viewed to your immediate left at that point. Legal / ni-legal ... who knows. It was correctly posted at the other two entrances I scoped out. The issue of contrast was that it was white letters on clear glass and hard to read, even up close. Again a grey area.

Generally I agree 100% and in most cases, I wouldn't bring it up.

Solaris wrote:

TXBO wrote:In talking to car dealers, here is a point that all dealers and customers need to consider. A person that brings their car to a dealership's service department will have to disarm and leave that gun in the car, while surrendering the keys, if no form of carry is allowed. This is not a good situation for the customer or the dealer. Many dealers may not have considered this.

they could get effective consent to transport it from one car to another.

About 70% of my customers wait for their car without having a second car to which it could be transferred.

Also, when customers are trading in a car, I have a used car manager appraise and drive the car to be traded. That would require the CHL holder to either bring the gun inside, leave it in the car unsecured or leave.

thestudiokid wrote:

Vol Texan wrote:

jerry_r60 wrote:

thestudiokid wrote:Hi all. Yep, forum newb here. Post #1....
"Good morning, this is Seth, General Manager at Hiley Hyundai.....I also addressed the compliance of our signage with him as far as the way the signs were facing and them not being on contrasting backgrounds and that will be fixed"

I know that this is not the main thrust of your post but as you hang around in here I think you will find, it's not in our best interest to suggest correcting invalid signs. I think most if not all of us like the idea of educating on the difference between 30.07 and 30.06 but it doesn't help us to make sure businesses put up compliant signs. I'm not advocating walking passed a non-compliant sign but if I happened to miss it or for whatever reason I end up going in and something happens, I'd prefer the sign had been left invalid.

Again, I'm not advocating waking passed an invalid sing and I do support your main point of educating on the difference between30.07 and 30.06.

Jerry,

I do agree with you that very few of us suggest educating them about non-compliant signs. However, the quote above in the OP was from a letter that the OP received, where the manager had the discussion with the owner... The OP didn't say that he had the discussion.

Actually, I did have the discussion with the GM, but he actually brought it up when he noticed the direction of the sign as we were talking about it just outside in the service bay. This issue came up because the sign was posted on inside of the door to the service department, facing inward. It was backwards when you walked in from outside. When you enter, you immediately face left to address the service writer and the sign is correctly viewed to your immediate left at that point. Legal / ni-legal ... who knows. It was correctly posted at the other two entrances I scoped out. The issue of contrast was that it was white letters on clear glass and hard to read, even up close. Again a grey area.

Generally I agree 100% and in most cases, I wouldn't bring it up.

Interesting thought/comment on the contrast vs white on clear glass. I've wondered about that myself as that's how I've seen many signs. I obey them but is white on clear contrasting? I might need to go ask in the "fashion thread" where we were discussion color coordinating holsters.

TXBO wrote: About 70% of my customers wait for their car without having a second car to which it could be transferred.

Also, we customers are trading in a car, I have a used car manager appraise and drive the car to be traded. That would require the CHL holder to either bring the gun inside, leave it in the car unsecured or leave.

Or get effective consent.

Solaris wrote:
Or get effective consent.

Or not do business there, do business somewhere where consent has already been given in the form of not posting signs.

Solaris wrote:

TXBO wrote: About 70% of my customers wait for their car without having a second car to which it could be transferred.

Also, we customers are trading in a car, I have a used car manager appraise and drive the car to be traded. That would require the CHL holder to either bring the gun inside, leave it in the car unsecured or leave.

Or get effective consent.

If you're going to give effective consent there is no need to put up the sign.

Solaris wrote:
Or get effective consent.

Speaking for myself... Not going to happen. I am not going to go through the hassle of trying to get consent. There are other car dealers that want my business. I would leave.