Parking lot of a government building?

[Carolina Cajun]

I will try and make this question short and to the point. I will be going to a graduation at Lackland AFB, TX and I will be staying at an off base Air Force/DoD run hotel (The Kelly Inn). Now it still falls under the Air Force Lodging/DoD, but it’s not physically located on the Air Force base. Now I called and asked the front desk at the hotel what their handgun policy is and she informed me that I can’t bring my handgun inside the building, but I can leave in my vehicle in the parking lot.

Does this sound about right? I am treating the hotel just like an armed forces recruiter office where I know that I can’t legally carry inside in office, but the parking lot is fine. However if I leave in my vehicle in the safe I have in there I should be doing everything legal correct? On a side note, my parents will be coming there also so we will be taking their vehicle when we actually go on base.

[ELB]

Would work for me. Enjoy the graduation, and congratulations to whoever is graduating.

[ELB]

This prompts a tangential thought, tho: I think most? all? of the old Kelly AFB buildings that are not now enclosed by the Lackland fence are now on the Port of San Antonio land?

According to Wikipedia, the Port of San Antonio is a political subdivision of the State of Texas. If that is true, then licensed carry should be legal throughout the Port of San Antonio except for the buildings leased or used by the Federal Government (since I am sure that federal power trumps state law in those instances).

Therefore any private entity that leased a building from the Port of San Antonio should not be posting or forbidding licensed carry, no? I wonder about that.

Any San Antonians feel like making a field trip?


ETA: from www.portsanantonio.us :

Port San Antonio is a tax-exempt, self-sustaining enterprise that uses no public tax dollars to run its operations. It was incorporated in 1997 by the City of San Antonio as a separate political jurisdiction of the State of Texas. Its 11-member Board of Directors is appointed by the Mayor and City Council.

[Carolina Cajun]

ELB, I appreciate your input and let me THANK YOU for your service!!

[ELB]

ELB, I appreciate your input and le me THANK YOU for your service!!

Much appreciated.

I hope the rains and storms hold off, the graduation parade is pretty neat to see.

[jmorris]

I worked in an AF leased building not to far from Kelly Inn and we actually took over some unused space on both ends a couple of years ago. Federal law (18-930) trumps state law so it is illegal to carry in those buildings. Kelly Inn does have the required signage. Parking lot is OK mainly because it is not leased so jurisdiction belongs to the state. According to the Lackland Judge Advocate state jurisdiction applies to the buildings also except where trumped by federal law.

[justa2e2]

I will try and make this question short and to the point. I will be going to a graduation at Lackland AFB, TX and I will be staying at an off base Air Force/DoD run hotel (The Kelly Inn). Now it still falls under the Air Force Lodging/DoD, but it’s not physically located on the Air Force base. Now I called and asked the front desk at the hotel what their handgun policy is and she informed me that I can’t bring my handgun inside the building, but I can leave in my vehicle in the parking lot.

Does this sound about right? I am treating the hotel just like an armed forces recruiter office where I know that I can’t legally carry inside in office, but the parking lot is fine. However if I leave in my vehicle in the safe I have in there I should be doing everything legal correct? On a side note, my parents will be coming there also so we will be taking their vehicle when we actually go on base.

As long as the parking lot is not part of the leased entity than you will be fine. I work in one of the compounds down the street that is a lease back from Port San Antonio. According to US Code parking lots are still considered off limits for federal buildings if they are leased back. I had been pushing to let me bring my weapon into the compound to leave in the parking lot. I continually got denied and ended up parking across the street in the Port's big parking lot.

The main thing to find out is if the parking lot is part of the lease. It's a pain in the butt due to it being an old Air Force base they still had reserved parking spaces last time I went by there. To me it says it is part of the lease back if they have those but they could also be left over from the Air Force days.

[KLB]

This prompts a tangential thought, tho: I think most? all? of the old Kelly AFB buildings that are not now enclosed by the Lackland fence are now on the Port of San Antonio land?

According to Wikipedia, the Port of San Antonio is a political subdivision of the State of Texas. If that is true, then licensed carry should be legal throughout the Port of San Antonio except for the buildings leased or used by the Federal Government (since I am sure that federal power trumps state law in those instances).

Port San Antonio is definitely a political subdivision of the State of Texas, subject to the rules of all political subdivisions, BUT

1. Lackland AFB is an air force base and subject to federal rules, and

2. Not all the former Kelly AFB is part of Port San Antonio. At least to be best of my information and belief, there is still some federal presence out there, and the boundaries of what is federal and what is Port may not always be clear or regular. So it's a confusing mess.

[jmorris]

This prompts a tangential thought, tho: I think most? all? of the old Kelly AFB buildings that are not now enclosed by the Lackland fence are now on the Port of San Antonio land?

According to Wikipedia, the Port of San Antonio is a political subdivision of the State of Texas. If that is true, then licensed carry should be legal throughout the Port of San Antonio except for the buildings leased or used by the Federal Government (since I am sure that federal power trumps state law in those instances).

Port San Antonio is definitely a political subdivision of the State of Texas, subject to the rules of all political subdivisions, BUT

1. Lackland AFB is an air force base and subject to federal rules, and

2. Not all the former Kelly AFB is part of Port San Antonio. At least to be best of my information and belief, there is still some federal presence out there, and the boundaries of what is federal and what is Port may not always be clear or regular. So it's a confusing mess.

From 2010 to Dec 31st, 2015 I worked as a Civil Servant for an Air Force agency at Port San Antonio. Part of my job was data and phone networks in buildings we leased so I sat in on a lot of meetings with PSA folks.

Half of the air field and everything east of the old Kelly belongs to PSA. If you drive around the air field you will see "No Photography" signs only on the fencing on the west (Lackland) side of the field. Exit south on S. Acme Street and when you get to the T you'll see the signs to the right, none to the left.

The Air Force leases several buildings on PSA. I know of no parking lots (even those with reserved spaces) that are leased. I was in a building that (along with two beside us) was fenced and gated. There were Security Police and Federal Police on the gates. When we moved in 2010 we were told that everything inside the gate was federal and no firearms allowed at all. Some of us parked across the street.

But some of us got wondering about that because we found out that the San Antonio Fire Department would respond to calls, not the Kelly FD (a SAFD station was built on PSA in 2014). Then we found out that San Antonio Police would respond to any incident in the parking lot, then later that SAPD would respond to incidents *in* the building. Finally in 2013 someone submitted a request to the Lackland JA for an opinion.

Their response was that our building being leased (and this should extend to any lease-back building on PSA) it was under Texas state jurisdiction for all but purely federal legislation. Because of 18/930 we couldn't have firearms in the building but we could have them in the parking lot since 18/930 only applies to buildings. Lackland SP and OSI would investigate violations. If someone had their purse stolen, since there is no federal crime for theft, it would be investigated by SAPD. We all started parking inside the gate. If I had to go to Lackland during the day I took a government vehicle. But any AF leased building on PSA I drove my truck

This also meant that Lackland (technically Joint Base San Antonio) polices, outside of those directly effecting the work environment, do not apply. So if I wanted to go running in the parking lot, inside the gate, with earbuds in there was nada they could do. Yes, JBSA policy is no running/jogging on base outside of on a track with earbuds.

I can, if anyone wants it, dig out a copy of that memo and send it to you. Just PM me.

[ELB]

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Their response was that our building being leased (and this should extend to any lease-back building on PSA) it was under Texas state jurisdiction for all but purely federal legislation. Because of 18/930 we couldn't have firearms in the building but we could have them in the parking lot since 18/930 only applies to buildings. ...

I can, if anyone wants it, dig out a copy of that memo and send it to you. Just PM me.

That's about what I figured, I didn't think the federal no-carry rules would go outside the federally-leased buildings.

And yes, I'd like a copy of that memo, I will PM you shortly.

But I am still curious if there are any non-federal/commercial/private interests that lease buildings from PSA -- and try to forbid LTC carry. That would seem to be against state law.

Thanks for the post.