Chased Down in the parking lot at Kroger in Sachse

[nitrogen]

I vaguely remember a thread here about someone getting chased down in a parking lot after one of those "theft beepers" went off.

I wish I could find the thread; but I also remember that the general response was that you shouldn't get chased down; that once you leave the premises with your items you're golden.

Well, I just had it happen to me tonight. I went to Kroger to pick up a few items. Apparently the person at the register failed to deactivate a tag.

I didn't hear the machine at the door beep (I have some hearing impairment) but when I was putting my groceries in my car, one of the employees in the store ran up to me at my car, and prevented me from leaving until I "showed my receipt and items"

Being the curmudgeon I am, I went back into the store and returned my $45 worth of items. I also asked the manager if it was store policy to chase people down in the parking lot. He replied affirmatively.

IT's annoying, because I like shopping at my local Kroger, as it's a union shop. But after this, I think I need to rethink my shopping.

Not really posting to complain (I'm taking it up with Kroger) but just to let you know that some stores WILL chase you down, and try and restrain you in the parking lot; despite whatever the law might say.

[rm9792]

Let them try to restrain you. You should get a nice settlement out of it. They have zero grounds for harassing you. I have had them chase me to the parking lot or in the corridor of the mall becuase of those silly rfids and I just ignore them. I would tell you what I would have told the Kroger person but the daughter rule prevents it.

[jason]

It's not theft until the individual leaves the store. I don't believe there is a law against putting items in your pocket to carry up to the register. When I did loss prevention in California 23 years ago, I couldn't stop anyone until they left the store. I had to show they had no intention of paying for the merchandise. I also had to see them steal the merchandise (stuff in their pocket or jacket), out of fear of law suits.

Kroger must only tag certain items. Chicken, for example, wouldn't be tagged.

When I hear the alarm go off, I look around for an employee to see if they want to check. Most people do. Since you didn't hear it, it may have looked more suspicious to them that you didn't stop and look around for an employee.

[Xander]

I think that if they've caught you shoplifting, for instance if they see you putting merchandise in your pocket and walking out with it, they have a right to restrain you. However, if we're just talking about a security system going off, as in this thread, I do *not* think they have that right, particularly with the incredibly high percentage of false alarms those things generate. I agree with RX...If they try to detain you based on the fact and it's because one of their employees or their equipment failed to properly deactivate a security device, I'd think that they'd be opening themselves up to a world of liability.

[stevie_d_64]

Txi is going to come in her and thump this one...I can feel it...He's sleeping now, but I can feel this transmographying through space and time...Yep...

As far as my take on it...And having worked in retail before...Its not really about you...So instead of getting confrontational about it, my one question to the person thinking they are going to detain you and try to delay you from continuing on with your day...Training is key, some companies encourage the dangerous action of detainment, some just say get a good look at the "criminal" and get as much info as possible for nothing to be done...Or they just let it go...

"Is a package of balogna that was incorrectly deactivated by your cashier worth risking a charge of unlawful detainment and your future at this company? Please if it means that much to you, run back in (I will wait) and get your store manager here to take care of this, or I am on my way home...Thanks..."

As long as they don't make a big deal out of it, or make assumptions beyond they made a mistake...I'm not going to make a big deal out of it either...

[BrassMonkey]

I am almost positive that statute is referring to tractors and combines.

Let some store person lay their hands on me. He's gonna get popped in the puss... Hard!

[Lucky45]

Well about 3 weeks ago, I went to a local mall near my house and was browsing several stores when I went into a lady's store with the wife and as I entered the door, the alarm thingy went off.
Now me and the wife looked at each other and kept walking in, and we weren't confronted because they was an employee folding close near the door and they say we were coming.
But I was waiting for someone to approach me and say something "crazy." Then I whispered to my wife that I bet it was my gun IWB. But guess what happened on the way out.....DING DONG....and I kept walking. I need a new truck anyway.

THis just reminded me of the first time this kind of thing happened. I went to another local grocery chain and I walked pass a leased out shopping area near the entrance and I guess that I was too close to the door because I heard DING DONG. I couldn't figure out why for about one minute, but was wondering if the store had "hidden gun detector." LOL.

But this has only happened twice with me so far, and I carry 24/7 EVERYWHERE without legal 30.06, no questions asked. Haven't had anyone approach me yet, so maybe I need to prepare a speech.

[srothstein]

Just so you can all see the law on this:

Code of Criminal Procedure Article 18.16. PREVENTING CONSEQUENCES OF
THEFT.
Any person has a right to prevent the consequences of theft by seizing any personal property that has been stolen and bringing it, with the person suspected of committing the theft, if that person can be taken, before a magistrate for examination, or delivering the property and the person suspected of committing the theft to a peace officer for that purpose. To justify a seizure under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the proceedings had without delay.

Penal Code Article 9.22. NECESSITY.
Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately
necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh,
according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm
sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the
conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.


Note the words reasonable belief and seizure made without delay. I believe if the alarm goes off and you do not cooperate with the store, if they are aware of this law, you would lose any lawsuits against them.

I think the store would be in trouble if they were just checking receipts at the door (like Sam's Club), but an anti-theft alarm going off is going to be seen as reasonable by most of the people who serve on juries these days. They usually have forgotten what rights and freedom are.

And if you do hit the employee in the mouth, you would probably be found guilty of both assault and resisting arrest. The street is very rarely the place to fight these types of arguments, especially if you believe you can convince 12 people to have them give you big bucks later.

[srothstein]

Just so you can all see the law on this:

Code of Criminal Procedure Article 18.16. PREVENTING CONSEQUENCES OF
THEFT.
Any person has a right to prevent the consequences of theft by seizing any personal property that has been stolen and bringing it, with the person suspected of committing the theft, if that person can be taken, before a magistrate for examination, or delivering the property and the person suspected of committing the theft to a peace officer for that purpose. To justify a seizure under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the proceedings had without delay.

Penal Code Article 9.22. NECESSITY.
Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately
necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh,
according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm
sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the
conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.


Note the words reasonable belief and seizure made without delay. I believe if the alarm goes off and you do not cooperate with the store, if they are aware of this law, you would lose any lawsuits against them.

I think the store would be in trouble if they were just checking receipts at the door (like Sam's Club), but an anti-theft alarm going off is going to be seen as reasonable by most of the people who serve on juries these days. They usually have forgotten what rights and freedom are.

And if you do hit the employee in the mouth, you would probably be found guilty of assault. The street is very rarely the place to fight these types of arguments, especially if you believe you can convince 12 people to have them give you big bucks later.

[Lucky45]

To justify a seizure under this article, there must be reasonable ground to believe the property is stolen, and the seizure must be openly made and the proceedings had without delay.
................I think the store would be in trouble if they were just checking receipts at the door (like Sam's Club), but an anti-theft alarm going off is going to be seen as reasonable by most of the people who serve on juries these days. They usually have forgotten what rights and freedom are.

Just for discussion, I think part of your defense it that these stores have PLENTY monitored surveillance cameras in the building and since NOBODY saw your stuff items in your clothing, and you stopped at the cash register and your items were scanned by an employee, then a reasonable person would think it was a false alarm from item not getting demagnetized by cashier. So, stores need to put a perimeter collar on their employees and taze them when they make this error.

Now if someone try to stroll outside the building with items and bypass the register, then I agree then there is reasonable grounds.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Just for discussion, I think part of your defense it that these stores have PLENTY monitored surveillance cameras in the building and since NOBODY saw your stuff items in your clothing, and you stopped at the cash register and your items were scanned by an employee, then a reasonable person would think it was a false alarm from item not getting demagnetized by cashier. So, stores need to put a perimeter collar on their employees and taze them when they make this error.

Now if someone try to stroll outside the building with items and bypass the register, then I agree then there is reasonable grounds.

Nice try, but that would never fly. Given a busy store and dozens of cameras, it's easy to see how someone could steal something and have it missed by the people monitoring the cameras.

Stephan has it exactly right.

If the alarm goes off and a store employee approaches you - cooperate.

We're the good guys, remember? We should act accordingly.

[Liberty]

Just for discussion, I think part of your defense it that these stores have PLENTY monitored surveillance cameras in the building and since NOBODY saw your stuff items in your clothing, and you stopped at the cash register and your items were scanned by an employee, then a reasonable person would think it was a false alarm from item not getting demagnetized by cashier. So, stores need to put a perimeter collar on their employees and taze them when they make this error.

Now if someone try to stroll outside the building with items and bypass the register, then I agree then there is reasonable grounds.

Nice try, but that would never fly. Given a busy store and dozens of cameras, it's easy to see how someone could steal something and have it missed by the people monitoring the cameras.

Stephan has it exactly right.

If the alarm goes off and a store employee approaches you - cooperate.

We're the good guys, remember? We should act accordingly.

If someone physically asaults me in a parking lot. I will respond as if I've been assaulted. I get aproached all the time in parking lots by strangers. I tell them loudly and firmly "NO!" and warn them not to aproach. If someone is wearing an apron doesn't make them not a carjacker or other type of criminal.

[frankie_the_yankee]

If someone physically asaults me in a parking lot. I will respond as if I've been assaulted. I get aproached all the time in parking lots by strangers. I tell them loudly and firmly "NO!" and warn them not to aproach. If someone is wearing an apron doesn't make them not a carjacker or other type of criminal.

Sure, and if you misinterpret the legitimate actions of a store employee investigating a possible theft and respond with force, you can expect to go to jail.

[mikesrex]

while finishing up this chemical engineering degree. I work in a retail pharmacy with an alarm systems on the entrance/exit.

we have a strict policy to not pursue people who continue to exit after the buzzer goes off. The company probably has a couple of things in mind. First, the safety of our employees is not worth risking to get back a 10 dollar item. Also we can keep from upsetting legit customers due to chasing them down after a false alarm.