Houston Grand Jury indicts pair behind Planned Parenthood videos

[mojo84]

Poetic justice. You can't break the law just because you disagree with something, no matter how repugnant. Regardless of politics, abortion is legal, frauding federal documents is not.

That is assuming they actually did break the law. The grand jury does not make that determination.

They also should not ignore another party breaking the law because it isn't politically correct.

For all the people condemning the indicted or cheering for Planned Parenthood, this should give you pause. The prosecuting attorney who obtained the indictment is an active board member of Planned Parenthood of Houston. That's not exactly an impartial public official.

I suspect the charges will either be thrown out or they will win at trial. AG Paxton also said the state will continue to investigate Planned Parenthood.

Very enlightening information baldeagle. Thanks for posting that. Maybe such information should be required to be disclosed in the press releases and media articles so that some won't be so quick to assume an indictment means someone is guilty.

[Scott Farkus]

For all the people condemning the indicted or cheering for Planned Parenthood, this should give you pause. The prosecuting attorney who obtained the indictment is an active board member of Planned Parenthood of Houston. That's not exactly an impartial public official.

For the sake of this state, this country, possibly even the very fundamentals of Western civiliation, I hope this is not true. If this was allowed to happen in Texas, of all places, I cannot fathom how we would recover from such corruption.

[mojo84]

I would not have look for this if baldeagle hadn't posted his comments.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/25/hou ... arenthood/

Lauren Reeder, one of the prosecutors in the Harris County district attorney’s office, revealed last August that she was a member of the board of directors for the Planned Parenthood affiliate that was targeted by Daleiden.

Reeder’s LinkedIn page indicates that she has been a Planned Parenthood board member since 2013 and a fundraiser for the abortion provider since 2009:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-reeder-5151b66

[goose]

If you want to quote the bible, how about quoting the parts about murder of the innocent and the unborn in the mother's womb.

I think to be in context, you should need to quote the parts of the bible that say it is okay to give up/forego our integrity when dealing with abortion (or any other wrongs that we are dealing with). We can disagree on whether or not the actions of the video takers had integrity. I do not believe that we should be debating if integrity is disposable if the adversary is bad enough. I just don't see that in my scripture.

[mojo84]

If you want to quote the bible, how about quoting the parts about murder of the innocent and the unborn in the mother's womb.

I think to be in context, you should need to quote the parts of the bible that say it is okay to give up/forego our integrity when dealing with abortion (or any other wrongs that we are dealing with). We can disagree on whether or not the actions of the video takers had integrity. I do not believe that we should be debating if integrity is disposable if the adversary is bad enough. I just don't see that in my scripture.

I do not believe what they did compromised or disposed of integrity. Since that is my position, I do not need to quote the bible about integrity or honesty.

Look at it this way. If a female cop is put out on the street corner soliciting for johns, is that illegal or lacking in integrity? How about a cop posing as a john soliciting services or favors for money?

I find it interesting you seem to be holding the people that exposed the baby killers to a much higher standard than you do the baby killers.


http://www.theamericanmirror.com/report ... rd-member/

[goose]

If you want to quote the bible, how about quoting the parts about murder of the innocent and the unborn in the mother's womb.

I think to be in context, you should need to quote the parts of the bible that say it is okay to give up/forego our integrity when dealing with abortion (or any other wrongs that we are dealing with). We can disagree on whether or not the actions of the video takers had integrity. I do not believe that we should be debating if integrity is disposable if the adversary is bad enough. I just don't see that in my scripture.

I do not believe what they did compromised or disposed of integrity. Since that is my position, I do not need to quote the bible about integrity or honesty.

Fair enough. We can disagree. It is such a large grey area that we would just be persuading each other. We don't know each other well enough to be effective at that, would be my guess.

Look at it this way. If a female cop is put out on the street corner soliciting for johns, is that illegal or lacking in integrity? How about a cop posing as a john soliciting services or favors for money?

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

I find it interesting you seem to be holding the people that exposed the baby killers to a much higher standard than you do the baby killers.

Good. I hold my children to a higher standard than I hold others' children. I hold my friends to higher standards than I hold others. I hold my religious leaders and political leaders to higher standards that I hold the other team's leaders. IMO, if there is a down turn to our country and our political system it is because vast numbers of us subscribe to the "Well, our pile of excrement is better than their pile of excrement, so lets vote 'em up and celebrate their awesomeness" mentality. IF, and it is a crazy long shot, if we could get the conservative party (analogous to my children and friends mentioned above) as a whole to truly hold our elected officials to the standards we claim we have, a positive and wonderful change could occur. A revival really.

[VMI77]

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

OK, so invoke Godwin's law, but everything Hitler did was within the law. So what? As beings with free will we must judge the law. It shouldn't be a crime to lie to the government. Period. The police should not get a pass for any conduct that would be a crime for a citizen. I don't know what "fraudulently filled out papers means." They lied on a form? If by deception they gained materially then it may be fraud. If they simply lied to a government that lies regularly to us and uses lies subjugate and control us then their integrity is intact.

"If our system is just..." That is easily answered: it isn't. See General Petraeus, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Corazine, Barrack Obama, et al.

[K.Mooneyham]

I will not debate abortion, since that topic is a no-win in either direction. I will state I generally oppose abortion, especially its funding by taxpayers. However, I will say that a public official working to persue a case against someone while having a strong affiliation with those opposing that someone speaks to the lack of integrity of the public official, and smacks of corruption, as well. I guess anything goes in an election year.

[goose]

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

OK, so invoke Godwin's law, but everything Hitler did was within the law. So what? As beings with free will we must judge the law. It shouldn't be a crime to lie to the government. Period. The police should not get a pass for any conduct that would be a crime for a citizen. I don't know what "fraudulently filled out papers means." They lied on a form? If by deception they gained materially then it may be fraud. If they simply lied to a government that lies regularly to us and uses lies subjugate and control us then their integrity is intact.

"If our system is just..." That is easily answered: it isn't. See General Petraeus, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Corazine, Barrack Obama, et al.

So what is next? If we literally have zero faith in the system we should either revolt, go off grid, or leave right? I just expressed the opinion that if we are going to be "in the game," we should hold ourselves to a higher standard so as to be beacon for others to see. If we are going to discuss, what is IMO, a gorilla war on a subjugating government then that is a separate discussion. I have more faith in our system than that. Perfect? Nope. Best I can see for miles and miles and miles? Yep.

[VMI77]

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

OK, so invoke Godwin's law, but everything Hitler did was within the law. So what? As beings with free will we must judge the law. It shouldn't be a crime to lie to the government. Period. The police should not get a pass for any conduct that would be a crime for a citizen. I don't know what "fraudulently filled out papers means." They lied on a form? If by deception they gained materially then it may be fraud. If they simply lied to a government that lies regularly to us and uses lies subjugate and control us then their integrity is intact.

"If our system is just..." That is easily answered: it isn't. See General Petraeus, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Corazine, Barrack Obama, et al.

So what is next? If we literally have zero faith in the system we should either revolt, go off grid, or leave right? I just expressed the opinion that if we are going to be "in the game," we should hold ourselves to a higher standard so as to be beacon for others to see. If we are going to discuss, what is IMO, a gorilla war on a subjugating government then that is a separate discussion. I have more faith in our system than that. Perfect? Nope. Best I can see for miles and miles and miles? Yep.

I don't know what's next...I only know what I see around me right now. I can make some educated guesses about where that will lead.

I don't entirely disagree about holding ourselves to a higher standard. However, the deck is stacked against us. At some point when you continue to play by rules that aren't even recognized by your opponent you're no longer in the game, you're not even on the field. I'm not leaving, and I wouldn't leave even if there was some place to go.

I'm going off grid as much as possible but at this point, that's not a lot. At this point any practical "revolt" is limited to the states standing up to the federal government. For example, if the feds pass a law to confiscate guns, states like Texas pass a law refusing to recognize or enforce that law, just like other states allow sanctuary cities and don't enforce marijuana laws. That is the only peaceful means of opposition to tyranny remaining to us.

[goose]

I don't know what's next...I only know what I see around me right now. I can make some educated guesses about where that will lead.

I don't entirely disagree about holding ourselves to a higher standard. However, the deck is stacked against us. At some point when you continue to play by rules that aren't even recognized by your opponent you're no longer in the game, you're not even on the field. I'm not leaving, and I wouldn't leave even if there was some place to go.

I'm going off grid as much as possible but at this point, that's not a lot. At this point any practical "revolt" is limited to the states standing up to the federal government. For example, if the feds pass a law to confiscate guns, states like Texas pass a law refusing to recognize or enforce that law, just like other states allow sanctuary cities and don't enforce marijuana laws. That is the only peaceful means of opposition to tyranny remaining to us.

I don't think that you and I are crazy far apart. And I get the frustration. Believe me, I get the frustration.

[Scott Farkus]

I would not have look for this if baldeagle hadn't posted his comments.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/01/25/hou ... arenthood/

Lauren Reeder, one of the prosecutors in the Harris County district attorney’s office, revealed last August that she was a member of the board of directors for the Planned Parenthood affiliate that was targeted by Daleiden.

Reeder’s LinkedIn page indicates that she has been a Planned Parenthood board member since 2013 and a fundraiser for the abortion provider since 2009:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-reeder-5151b66

I'm seeing in other sources that while she is in fact an attorney in the DA's office, she was supposedly not involved in this case and they erected "Chinese walls", for whatever that's worth, to prevent her from influencing it.

I don't know much about Harris county's internal politics but it is at minimum concerning that a Perry appointed Republican (which the DA is, as I understand it) would even have such a person on staff, but again, I don't know the circumstances surrounding this or how these assistants are typically selected.

But if a Planned Parenthood board member did indeed prosecute this case, we're done here. Time to hit the reset button.

[Scott Farkus]

I don't know what's next...I only know what I see around me right now. I can make some educated guesses about where that will lead.

I don't entirely disagree about holding ourselves to a higher standard. However, the deck is stacked against us. At some point when you continue to play by rules that aren't even recognized by your opponent you're no longer in the game, you're not even on the field. I'm not leaving, and I wouldn't leave even if there was some place to go.

I'm going off grid as much as possible but at this point, that's not a lot. At this point any practical "revolt" is limited to the states standing up to the federal government. For example, if the feds pass a law to confiscate guns, states like Texas pass a law refusing to recognize or enforce that law, just like other states allow sanctuary cities and don't enforce marijuana laws. That is the only peaceful means of opposition to tyranny remaining to us.

I don't think that you and I are crazy far apart. And I get the frustration. Believe me, I get the frustration.

Cosigned. I am extremely troubled by where this country is headed. Until this, I at least took comfort that if worst came to worst, at least Texas on balance was not likely to succumb to the left's corruption. Now I'm not so sure.

[Pilgrim]

Killing innocent babies is evil.
Who ever is quoting the Bible needs to read Exodus 21.22 “If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23“But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
God values the babies that are being aborted.
If USA laws goes against God who are you going to support?

[Soccerdad1995]

I do not believe that it is illegal for police officers to do this. I could be wrong. If it is shown that the video shooters fraudulently filled out and filed papers with the federal government, they broke laws. I am open to more discussion on that but it seems like we are comparing apples and oranges. Of note, I already clarified that if we see cops violating our laws, I absolutely, absolutely want them investigated and punished as warranted. If the video shooters broke no laws, if our system is just, we will find out shortly (well, as shortly as the sloth-like legal system allows).

OK, so invoke Godwin's law, but everything Hitler did was within the law. So what? As beings with free will we must judge the law. It shouldn't be a crime to lie to the government. Period. The police should not get a pass for any conduct that would be a crime for a citizen. I don't know what "fraudulently filled out papers means." They lied on a form? If by deception they gained materially then it may be fraud. If they simply lied to a government that lies regularly to us and uses lies subjugate and control us then their integrity is intact.

"If our system is just..." That is easily answered: it isn't. See General Petraeus, Hillary and Bill Clinton, John Corazine, Barrack Obama, et al.

Legal = right is a very, very dangerous and flawed belief system.

It was legal to own slaves for a good portion of human history, so owning slaves was right, and slave owners had high integrity, then when the law changed those slave owners suddenly lost their integrity by doing the exact same thing?

MLK had no integrity based on this line of reasoning, neither did Gandhi, or many, many others?

Just because something is legal does not make it right. And just because something is illegal does not make it wrong. Integrity and legality are two fundamentally different concepts that only occasionally happen to overlap.