Shooting In Abilene

[WildBill]

This incident happened on September 1st, but I just saw it.
An argument between neighbors ended up with one dead and two people arrested.
The tagline from ABC11 Eyewitness News Houston is:
"Abilene father and son charged with killing neighbor allegedly over fight about garbage"

It's a very sad situation with three egos and two guns.
What is your opinion of what will happen in court?

https://abc13.com/video-shows-deadly-sh ... s/4304099/

[orangetx]

Just seen this insane video.
They clearly had the intent to shoot in my mind. The wife said he shot by her head while she was pleading not to shoot.
Far as court, they might as well get ready to check out. They murdered that guy. Period.

[jb2012]

While it does appear that someone was out right murdered, no one besides the four people that were there know what happened/events leading up. I think we can learn a great lesson right here about “pulling your weapon.” I see people on here talk about when they need to display their weapon, or that they would simply “pull it out” to show they are serious. In this case it appears that the two men had their guns to “show they were serious” which only further aggravated the man who was killed. I don’t think you should pull your gun until you are absolutely ready to shoot and truly fear for your life or someone elses, because the moment someone tries to call your bluff (like appears in the video) it puts you in a bad position.

Edit to add: The son looks awfully suspicious with his shots as well....

[puma guy]

This incident happened on September 1st, but I just saw it.
An argument between neighbors ended up with one dead and two people arrested.
The tagline from ABC11 Eyewitness News Houston is:
"Abilene father and son charged with killing neighbor allegedly over fight about garbage"

It's a very sad situation with three egos and two guns.
What is your opinion of what will happen in court?

https://abc13.com/video-shows-deadly-sh ... s/4304099/

Based on this video and another report I read anda photo from behind showing the victim unarmed I'd say the Millers are toast.

[bblhd672]

There was a lot of stupid gathered in that alley. Stupid plus guns plus death threats = someone dies.
A one sided video that doesn't show everything leading up to the use of deadly force, or who was armed on the other side of the camera.
According to story below the incident was building for days.
https://www.reporternews.com/story/news ... 174034002/

"Several days ago we believe the deceased and the Millers began arguing over trash in the alleyway," Standridge said. "This then triggered a back and forth between the neighbors, culminating in today's violence."

My opinion is a jury will determine that:
1. the shooters did not have reasonable justification for deadly force, and
2. the shooters provoked the use of deadly force, thus
3. Convicted of murder

[WildBill]

An update states that the two suspects bonded out with $25,000 each.
Sept 21, 2018 a court increased their bond to $250,000 each and both men were taken into custody.

https://www.reporternews.com/story/news ... 383106002/

[WildBill]

This incident happened on September 1st, but I just saw it.
An argument between neighbors ended up with one dead and two people arrested.
The tagline from ABC11 Eyewitness News Houston is:
"Abilene father and son charged with killing neighbor allegedly over fight about garbage"

It's a very sad situation with three egos and two guns.
What is your opinion of what will happen in court?

https://abc13.com/video-shows-deadly-sh ... s/4304099/

Based on this video and another report I read anda photo from behind showing the victim unarmed I'd say the Millers are toast.

This story stated that the victim was "seven or more feet away" from the shooter holding a bat. When he raised it he was shot.
https://www.reporternews.com/story/news ... 383106002/

[puma guy]

This incident happened on September 1st, but I just saw it.
An argument between neighbors ended up with one dead and two people arrested.
The tagline from ABC11 Eyewitness News Houston is:
"Abilene father and son charged with killing neighbor allegedly over fight about garbage"

It's a very sad situation with three egos and two guns.
What is your opinion of what will happen in court?

https://abc13.com/video-shows-deadly-sh ... s/4304099/

Based on this video and another report I read anda photo from behind showing the victim unarmed I'd say the Millers are toast.

This story stated that the victim was "seven or more feet away" from the shooter holding a bat. When he raised it he was shot.
https://www.reporternews.com/story/news ... 383106002/

I read that. He was handed the bat sometime after the two showed up with guns and the shirtless guy pulled his out and confronted him him about putting two discarded mattresses back in the dumpster which the two guys then removed again and dumped on his "property." This appears to be a garbage alley which normally is not private property but it's not clear or explained in the article. I don't know legally if raising a bat at a man with a gun from 7 feet legally justifies deadly force or not. Guess the courts will decide. No word yet from the relatives who were present when the two perps showed up armed. I saw the Miller's bond was raised from $25,000 to $250,000 each, also. The fact they showed up armed is very telling as to their intent and he didn't have the bat when they came armed to confront the victim.

[Liberty]

This incident happened on September 1st, but I just saw it.
An argument between neighbors ended up with one dead and two people arrested.
The tagline from ABC11 Eyewitness News Houston is:
"Abilene father and son charged with killing neighbor allegedly over fight about garbage"

It's a very sad situation with three egos and two guns.
What is your opinion of what will happen in court?

https://abc13.com/video-shows-deadly-sh ... s/4304099/

Based on this video and another report I read anda photo from behind showing the victim unarmed I'd say the Millers are toast.

This story stated that the victim was "seven or more feet away" from the shooter holding a bat. When he raised it he was shot.
https://www.reporternews.com/story/news ... 383106002/

I read that. He was handed the bat sometime after the two showed up with guns and the shirtless guy pulled his out and confronted him him about putting two discarded mattresses back in the dumpster which the two guys then removed again and dumped on his "property." This appears to be a garbage alley which normally is not private property but it's not clear or explained in the article. I don't know legally if raising a bat at a man with a gun from 7 feet legally justifies deadly force or not. Guess the courts will decide. No word yet from the relatives who were present when the two perps showed up armed. I saw the Miller's bond was raised from $25,000 to $250,000 each, also. The fact they showed up armed is very telling as to their intent and he didn't have the bat when they came armed to confront the victim.

All I know is that If someone raises a baseball bat, while seven feet away, in anger towards me, There won't enough time before he smashes my pumpkin to weigh in the legalities of it all.
The fact that they showed up armed might not mean much. ADon't most of us show up just about anywhere armed?

[Deltaboy]

Lesson to be learned
When faced with armed men and there a disagreement ! Nicely excuse yourself and let your Lawyer or Police deal with it! Playing Billy Bad with armed men is just stupid!

[eyedoc]

The video shows the father holding his face and a board, bat or something going by his hip right before the son shoots.

[dlh]

In my opinion this is a tough case. Just my opinion of course. I saw the video this morning on a website the admins do not approve of so will not describe it but you can find it if you search...The victim is a huge guy--reminds me of the guys in the WWF plus he probably has mental problems to continue to scream and bait armed men when he could have just walked away. The armed men could have walked away too. In our conceal-carry class we were taught the importance of deescalation in conflicts. Both parties could have used a big dose of that here. Who knows what will happen in court. My gut tells me either a not guilty or a guilty under Section 19.02 of the Texas Penal Code. The defendants will ask for a "sudden passion" charge and, if granted by the court and believed by the jury,then they would be facing two to twenty. Stay tuned.

[flechero]

there was a whole bunch of crazy in that alley that morning and lots of opportunities to de-escalate.

Carrying a gun sometimes requires that you to swallow your pride and be the bigger man (or wimp as you will be called) and walk away.

Any situation that requires you to go (as in leave the safety of your home) confront someone with a gun, is a situation you should have avoided and called police to go in your place.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The testosterone and stupidity were flowing like wine! This will be an interesting case to follow. I can't see the detail some of you folks are describing. I can't see what the dead man did to prompt the father or son to shoot.

As with most videos, it didn't start at the beginning, so we don't know who did what in terms of the initial provocation. Remember, both the ability to defend oneself, as well as the lack of a duty to retreat, can be lost if one provokes the other person. Remember also that the provocation must be what started the trouble between the parties. As one Member noted, the dead man was a huge guy. This is a factor. The people are neighbors so a history of known violence could also be a factor.

I found a version of the video on YouTube that has all of the cursing bleeped out, so I'm going to use it in my LTC classes. It's a great example of letting pride and Adrenalin get you killed or charged with some form of homicide. One man is dead and two are in jail over a mattress.

Chas.