Gangs and prison time.

[powerboatr]

personally i would have gladly gone back to one of my old steam frigates, at least i could walk about the ship at my leisure.

have a cup of coffee, drink water that wasn't so thick with minerals you could actually swallow

the metropolitan detention center in albq. flat sucked and it was no picnic, and even after 22 years of floating around the world on ships, i would take then any day and during any long, deployment to hostile lands.

[Hoi Polloi]

It's an interesting dynamic that Beiruty refers to. Studies have shown that when you put people who behave well together, they individually behave better. When you put those who misbehave together, they behave worse. What do you think happens when murderers and thieves and rapists and arsonists are housed together? No amount of food, water, or shelter would make me want to be among them! I can't imagine the conditions such a group would live in or the culture or climate they would foster. I imagine in my limited way that it is a terrifying experience, no matter how warm or cleanly the surroundings might be.

A much better question, then, is how do we get these people to stop doing things which would put them in jail? To develop the virtues and skills that would keep them out? I recognize that there will always be some who refuse to be reached for some reason or another, but our system is overflowing and there has to be something that will help to reduce this tide.

I don't have answers. A lot of very intelligent people have a lot of ideas that I think are worth listening to. It's kinda boring, though, so I'll post these two videos instead which present some less mainstream ideas.

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

[74novaman]

These days, the only thing that prevents a high rate of recidivism is death.

Here is one way to accomplish a reform: consider eliminating "time off for good behavior." Good behavior isn't special. Good behavior would have kept them out of prison in the first place. Inside the prison, it should be the standard, with additional punishments - including extra time - heaped on top of the original sentence for failing to meet the good behavior standard. The reward for good behavior should be getting released at the end of your original sentence.

This is a great plan.

[powerboatr]

this is from a person i know whom lives in saudi.
thought it was interesting as we just mentioned jewish and converting




"fundamental principles of Islam (it may surprise you):

1- All humans were created equal and for one main reason: to worship God.

2- To be a true muslim, we must beleive in both Judiasim (Moses) and Christianity (Jesus).

3- Regarding Jesus Christ, we beleive (and it's written in the Hly Book Quraan) that Jesus Christ was born from Vrgin Mary and that God (Allah) has chosen him to be his word and messenger to people at his time. Jesus had many mircles given to him by God. We also beleive that Jesus was not actually crusified but was lifted by God before the mob cruisfies him.

4- We also beleive that Jesus will come back to earth to revive justice and fight evil.

5- Most important, we beleive that all three religions are almost the same (when you compare the true, pure and none-modified teachings). We all worship the same God, we all pray, we all fast, we are taught to be honest, merciful, humble, clean and stay away from evil.

Do you know that it is forbidden for a muslim to kill any one and I mean any one unless they are on a battle field?

Do you know that our Prophet Mohammad's neighbor was a jew?

Did you know that our prophet died and his arm shield was with the jewish neighbor as a guarantee against some money he borrowed from him?"

[Beiruty]

And do you know of the first Jewish Rabbi who converted to Islam?

Abdullah ibn Salaam:
His story : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Salam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka'ab_al-Ahbar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[karder]

My theory is "solve" the prison problem is likely to inflame many.
I believe that there should be a federal law requiring all prisons to turn a profit. Prisons, the way I see it, have huge manpower at their disposal and should be factories. All prisoners should be assigned jobs and required to work to earn money, with which they pay their rent, buy their food, pay taxes and so on. They can be paid .20 an hour to produce coffee makers for instance. It does not matter, as long as they are producing a commercially viable product which can be sold domestically or abroad to support their prison system.
Granted, this is a complicated idea, but some incarnation of it very doable and in my mind, very important.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of young men behind bars who grew up living off the welfare system and who have never held a job, paid taxes, and don't know anything about being a constructive member of society. They are thrown in prison (usually at very young ages) and exist, whether comfortably or not, for a period of years and are then released into society where they go right back to crime in many cases.
I believe these people should be taught to get up in the morning, report to work, do their job, get paid and buy what they need. If they want to get fed, they better be able to buy food from the prison kitchen. If they save their pennies and want to upgrade to a better cell, as long as they can pay the rent for a better cell, let them spend their money on it. They can also earn some money to pay restitution to their victims. Prison time served is only counted against days worked, so if a guy get sentenced to two years, he as to report to work for two years. Any day he does not report to work is not counted and so if a prisoner refuses to work, he is sitting in prison permanently.
I talk about this idea with friends and always hear the "slavery" argument. This does not turn prisoners into slaves, it teaches them how a real, functioning society works and what will be expected of them when they are released. We taxpayers should not be paying for some 3 million healthy souls to sit behind bars and wait out their sentences. Let the prison system earn some money for our country, and I will bet when these guys get out, they will be much less likely to return, and if they do, we will have a job waiting for them.

[The Annoyed Man]

Needs tuning, but not a bad start. And it's not slavery if you're getting paid. Here's how I would modify it....

1. I would include my suggestion above to get rid of "time off for good behavior." Like I said, good behavior is the expected baseline. It's the standard. You don't get special treatment for being good. Conversely, if you're bad while behind bars, your time gets supplemented with additional punishment time.

2. Even slaves and draft animals get a day off now and then. If you're going to practice indentured servitude - which I believe this is what this would be like - then you have to give your workers at least one day off a week to rest. And the pay structure has to be such that what they earn during the work week will be enough to cover their meals for the day(s) that they are off work.

Otherwise, no work/no eat is not only fair, it is completely biblical and in keeping with God's economy (2 Thessalonians 3:10).

[miajaipi]

I talk about this idea with friends and always hear the "slavery" argument. This does not turn prisoners into slaves, it teaches them how a real, functioning society works and what will be expected of them when they are released.

Your friends should read the constitution instead of watching so much tv.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Hard labor and chain gangs are constitutional and the prisoners don't have to be paid. They can be forced to work and if they don't work then don't feed them. That's both constitutional and encouraged by Jesus.

We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

[Rex B]

Japan's prisons are stark, barely heated, and though sentences seem short you serve every day of your sentence.
Their recidivism rate is extremely low. I admit a lot of that is cultural.