17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[Hoosier Daddy]

No, that would be what Zimmerman said, and it matches with part of the overheard conversation by Martins girl friend.

No it doesn't......the only part of their stories that match "kind of" is that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him. And I stand by what I said, just because Zimmerman said it, doesn't make it true....

He said he shot Martin. That's probably a lie too.

Who Shot TM?

[Jusster]

Think of it this way: You are walking down the street talking on the phone with your girlfriend when you realize a 200 pound man is following you. Do you:

A. Hang up and call the police.
B. Let Al Sharpton spread human waste all over your grave for fun and profit

I'm confused, what did your response have to do with the discussion you quoted?
Sorry, I had to delete them because of too many quotes but feel free to point out what exactly you were replying too.

Jusster

He told his girlfriend at 7:12 "I think this dude is following me."
7:13 Zimmerman says "S---, he's running."
7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with the police having lost trayvon.

If Trayvon had called the police anytime in those three minutes we would have a very different picture of what was going on. Why didn't he call the police? What did he have to gain by not calling the police. Die he think he could handle George by himself, if that is the case why did he feel compeled to run away from him? A good persons instinct should always be call the police

I agree he should have called the police if that were an option for him, but as many would argue that Zimmerman didn’t have to follow the advice of the SPD dispatcher, I would also argue that Martin didn’t have the obligation to call the police either.

This whole situation would have been avoided if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car instead of following a kid minding his own business and NOT breaking the law. If you ask me, Martin already attempted to de-escalate the situation by running from Zimmerman the first time. Zimmerman then took it upon himself to case him. How they came into contact with each other after that is debatable.

Zimmerman is not LEO….he’s not even a security officer
Zimmerman did not have anything on his clothing or person identifying himself as NW from any report that I've seen
Zimmerman based on his own statements did not identify himself as NW or a concerned citizen

Sorry but if you ask me, the instigator of this situation would be Zimmerman, not the citizen walling home, minding his own business…..NOT breaking any laws.

In my opinion this is no different then a drunk picking a fight with someone in a bar who is minding his own business, getting his butt handed to him in the fight that pursues, then pulling a gun and killing the guy he started the fight with in the first place.


Jusster

[sjfcontrol]

I wasn't stating my opinion....I was stating a "fact".....b. or c. would fit just fine.

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
n.
a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.


Jusster

Ok I'll take "c"

Based on that definition all anybody has done here (or anywhere) is speculation.

Somebody asked what Zimmerman was doing that close to Martin, I gave a possible explanation (happy?), that fit the situation as has been described. Since nobody has all the facts, that's the best we can do. You seem to want to dismis it as meaningless.

[Jusster]

In the police report Zimmerman said he was screaming for help. He had no way to know it was being recorded. The cries for help I think are his as it fits exactly with his statement.

Or...Zimmerman knew Martin was screaming for help and he wanted to make it appear that it was him to validate his self defense claim.....so he told LEO he was screaming for help instead of Martin.


Jusster

And bashed his own skull and broke his own nose, and convinced a witness the he was on bottom being beat? Interesting ...

You know, maybe it WAS Martin screaming for help, because he needed some homies to help further bash Zimmermans skull...

Tell you what, I'll wait until the medical report on Zimmerman comes out before I agree with you as to whether or not Zimmerman's "skull was bashed" or not. Most people who have their skull bashed in end up in the ER....not 5min of evaluation from EMT.....


Jusster

[ScooterSissy]

In the police report Zimmerman said he was screaming for help. He had no way to know it was being recorded. The cries for help I think are his as it fits exactly with his statement.

Or...Zimmerman knew Martin was screaming for help and he wanted to make it appear that it was him to validate his self defense claim.....so he told LEO he was screaming for help instead of Martin.


Jusster

And bashed his own skull and broke his own nose, and convinced a witness the he was on bottom being beat? Interesting ...

You know, maybe it WAS Martin screaming for help, because he needed some homies to help further bash Zimmermans skull...

Tell you what, I'll wait until the medical report on Zimmerman comes out before I agree with you as to whether or not Zimmerman's "skull was bashed" or not. Most people who have their skull bashed in end up in the ER....not 5min of evaluation from EMT.....


Jusster

"Most people"? Based on what survey? I've had my skull based multiple times (some even self-inflicted) and never went to the Sr for it. Th police report mentioned the injuries, and another witness is now confirming. Interesting that you only want to "wait" for information that disproves your theories.

[Jusster]

If Trayvon had called the police anytime in those three minutes we would have a very different picture of what was going on. Why didn't he call the police?

Perhaps he realized that he was in a situation where seconds counted and knew the police were minutes away?

You are entitled to your own opinions -- but not your own "facts".

I wasn't stating my opinion....I was stating a "fact".....b. or c. would fit just fine.

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
n.
a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.


Jusster

Then why did he stop running? a 17 year old skinny kids like that should have been able to out run a 200 pound 5'9" 29 year old and keep out running him all the way back to the house he was staying at. There is no way Zimmerman could have caught up if Trayvon didn't want that to happen. Though trayvon easily could have snuck up on zimmerman

Also I think the girlfriend isn't telling the whole truth

17 year old kids don’t make the wisest decisions in the world now do they? Maybe he felt he already tried running, so now that Zimmerman found him again he decided to ask him why he was following him…..his girlfriend then states that Zimmerman then asked him why are you here……I could see that happening…..after all it seemed like Zimmerman didn’t think he belonged there…..I could also see that leading to a fight especially when you have 2 immature guys involved in a confrontation.

I could ask you, when Martin asked Zimmerman why are you following me…….why didn’t Zimmerman just say “Oh sorry man, I’m part of NW. I haven’t seen you around here before and I thought maybe you needed some help.” could it be that maybe Zimmerman was looking for a fight and found one? Nobody knows.


Jusster

[Jusster]

In the police report Zimmerman said he was screaming for help. He had no way to know it was being recorded. The cries for help I think are his as it fits exactly with his statement.

Or...Zimmerman knew Martin was screaming for help and he wanted to make it appear that it was him to validate his self defense claim.....so he told LEO he was screaming for help instead of Martin.


Jusster

And bashed his own skull and broke his own nose, and convinced a witness the he was on bottom being beat? Interesting ...

You know, maybe it WAS Martin screaming for help, because he needed some homies to help further bash Zimmermans skull...

Tell you what, I'll wait until the medical report on Zimmerman comes out before I agree with you as to whether or not Zimmerman's "skull was bashed" or not. Most people who have their skull bashed in end up in the ER....not 5min of evaluation from EMT.....


Jusster

"Most people"? Based on what survey? I've had my skull based multiple times (some even self-inflicted) and never went to the Sr for it. Th police report mentioned the injuries, and another witness is now confirming. Interesting that you only want to "wait" for information that disproves your theories.

Sorry but when someone says they had their skull bashed in.....to me that implies some serious head trauma which would involve medical attention. To each his own I guess....

As far as my theory goes, whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head is irrelevant to me. Zimmerman created this whole situation. You can defend his actions if you want, that’s your choice.


Jusster

[speedsix]

That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Based on the article, the Orlando Sentinel sought this guy out for his expert opinion. Maybe it’s like fingerprints or DNA…people may share similar markers but for it to be a positive match 48% falls way short. But I don’t know, you sound like you know a lot more about this technology then I do so maybe you are right.

Edit: I decided to look the guy up….he looks pretty credible to me.

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/about.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jusster

Actually it's the so-called expert's opinion that is in question. As was pointed out already, there is a 48% probability that it is ZImmerman's voice. It is also a sure bet that having your nose broken (thus causing blood to run down your face and into your mouth) and having your head smashed into the ground will likely cause your voice to change pitch, tone, and inflection. That will naturally lower the voice identification probabilities. And, since Martin's voice was not analyzed, there is a 0% probability of it being his (until and unless it is tested).

Oh, and Martin being dead is no reason not to test against known recordings of his voice. I'm fairly certain Zimmerman didn't provide a voice sample for testing so they probably used a recording. Why couldn't they do that with Martin? Surely there are some somewhere.

...maybe dashcam videos??? voicemails left on friends' phones/answering machines...school projects...surely he made a Youtube with his voice on it...

[Hoosier Daddy]

17 year old kids don’t make the wisest decisions in the world now do they?

Some of them even start fights for no good reason.

[sjfcontrol]

As far as my theory goes, whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head is irrelevant to me. Zimmerman created this whole situation. You can defend his actions if you want, that’s your choice.
Jusster

Ah, well, its good to see you're taking all the reported data into account!

Saying Zimmerman created the incident is a logical fallacy unless it's your contention that he exited the car with the express intent of shooting Martin.
I can come up with any number of equivalent situations that would have prevented the confrontation. For example, it's Martin's school's fault. It was their no-tollerance policy that caused Martin to be out of school, and in that neighborhood in the first place. If the school hadn't been so intolerant of Martins drug usage/sales/possession, then he would have been home on that school night, not at his father's girlfriends house.

Yes, it's a ridiculous argument, but uses the same logic you're using.

[psijac]

As far as my theory goes, whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head is irrelevant to me. Zimmerman created this whole situation. You can defend his actions if you want, that’s your choice.


Jusster

fair enough. Getting yourself into stupid situations is still not illegal in the United States.

[sjfcontrol]

Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

[psijac]

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)

c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

Jusster

Based on that definition all anybody has done here (or anywhere) is speculation...

WOOOO

I love generating narratives using as little information as possible

[stroo]

Both of them had plenty of chances to avoid this. It isn't at all clear to me who started this. Zimmerman's statement can be taken as self-serving. Martin's girlfriends testimony isn't very clear and at this point could be pretty well coached. None of the witnesses appear to have seen the start of the fight. And who started the fight is all important.

Frankly it appears to me that this was a thug wanna be meeting up with a cop wanna be. I don't think either of these guys is the good guy; rather they were both doing the wrong things. And because of that it was almost inevitable that one or the other was going to end up dead or seriously injured.

What is absolutely despicable is the incitement to racial hatred by most of the Black establishment including the President, Congressmen, Jackson, Sharpeton and the New Black Panthers.

[Jusster]

I wasn't stating my opinion....I was stating a "fact".....b. or c. would fit just fine.

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
n.
a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.


Jusster

Ok I'll take "c"

Based on that definition all anybody has done here (or anywhere) is speculation.

Somebody asked what Zimmerman was doing that close to Martin, I gave a possible explanation (happy?), that fit the situation as has been described. Since nobody has all the facts, that's the best we can do. You seem to want to dismis it as meaningless.

No I’m not dismissing it a meaningless. My thing was it was being said as if it were fact. The truth as I have stated MANY times is that none of us knows what actually started the fight. I am not going to just take Zimmerman’s account as fact. If I’m stating my opinion I always try my best to say that it’s my opinion or so and so said…..

I hope you do not think that I do not value your opinion because I do. I enjoy hearing and discussing other peoples point of view because we can all learn something new. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. I just feel in this case many people are choosing sides not because of what is actually known but rather the circus surrounding the case now. In my opinion I still see it as an overzealous wanna be chasing down and confronting a citizen who was breaking no law and minding his own business. He bit off more than he could chew so he shot him. I could be wrong........

Jusster