17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[sjfcontrol]

I wasn't stating my opinion....I was stating a "fact".....b. or c. would fit just fine.

spec·u·la·tion (spky-lshn)
n.
a. Contemplation or consideration of a subject; meditation.
b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.
c. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.


Jusster

Ok I'll take "c"

Based on that definition all anybody has done here (or anywhere) is speculation.

Somebody asked what Zimmerman was doing that close to Martin, I gave a possible explanation (happy?), that fit the situation as has been described. Since nobody has all the facts, that's the best we can do. You seem to want to dismis it as meaningless.

No I’m not dismissing it a meaningless. My thing was it was being said as if it were fact. The truth as I have stated MANY times is that none of us knows what actually started the fight. I am not going to just take Zimmerman’s account as fact. If I’m stating my opinion I always try my best to say that it’s my opinion or so and so said…..

I hope you do not think that I do not value your opinion because I do. I enjoy hearing and discussing other peoples point of view because we can all learn something new. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. I just feel in this case many people are choosing sides not because of what is actually known but rather the circus surrounding the case now. In my opinion I still see it as an overzealous wanna be chasing down and confronting a citizen who was breaking no law and minding his own business. He bit off more than he could chew so he shot him. I could be wrong........

Jusster

OK -- I didn't mean it to come off as fact. To me, it's just obvious at this point that ANYTHING anybody suggests is just their interpretation of the "evidence" as presented. (Not sure of the proper term for the information we've heard. Neither "facts" or "evidence" seems proper.) It did seem to be a dismissal.

[Jusster]

17 year old kids don’t make the wisest decisions in the world now do they?

Some of them even start fights for no good reason.

The no good reason part we will just have to agree to disagree. Funny I read on this forum about members feeling like someone is following them or someone approaching them at the gas pump and they jump to condition RED and almost drawing their weapon and everybody says great situational awareness....but this kid wasn't supposed to do the same thing with Zimmerman following him?


Jusster

[Hoosier Daddy]

They didn't shoot the guy. They didn't jump the guy and pound his head into the pavement.

If you don't see the difference between the situations, I can't help you, so I'll stop trying.

[sjfcontrol]

Funny I read on this forum about members feeling like someone is following them or someone approaching them at the gas pump and they jump to condition RED and almost drawing their weapon and everybody says great situational awareness....but this kid wasn't supposed to do the same thing with Zimmerman following him?


Jusster

Frankly, seems to me that some here are too quick to jump to red. Probably shouldn't say more, but some people's fervor is frightening.

Edit: I'm kinda hoping it's just Internet machismo!

[philip964]

Nancy Grace continues to go all Natilie Holloway on Zimmerman tonight.

Even the fact that the enhanced ABC video now shows a head injury isn't deterring her.

One of her pundits said he expects the defense attorney has thousands of photographs of his injuries all in stunning clarity and detail.

As soon as this guy is found not guilty she will be all over Legal Concealed Carry.

That will be the only thing left to blame, cause you can't blame the baby-faced 12 year old in those pictures.

[Jusster]

Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

How was he acting like a thug wanna be that day? Was it the skittles? The iced tea? Walking home in the rain? Oh wait, is it the grey hoodie, blue jeans, and white sneakers?

Jusster

[Jusster]

Funny I read on this forum about members feeling like someone is following them or someone approaching them at the gas pump and they jump to condition RED and almost drawing their weapon and everybody says great situational awareness....but this kid wasn't supposed to do the same thing with Zimmerman following him?


Jusster

Frankly, seems to me that some here are too quick to jump to red. Probably shouldn't say more, but some people's fervor is frightening.

Edit: I'm kinda hoping it's just Internet machismo!

Just trying to prove a point.


Jusster

[ScooterSissy]

Or...Zimmerman knew Martin was screaming for help and he wanted to make it appear that it was him to validate his self defense claim.....so he told LEO he was screaming for help instead of Martin.


Jusster

And bashed his own skull and broke his own nose, and convinced a witness the he was on bottom being beat? Interesting ...

You know, maybe it WAS Martin screaming for help, because he needed some homies to help further bash Zimmermans skull...

Tell you what, I'll wait until the medical report on Zimmerman comes out before I agree with you as to whether or not Zimmerman's "skull was bashed" or not. Most people who have their skull bashed in end up in the ER....not 5min of evaluation from EMT.....


Jusster

"Most people"? Based on what survey? I've had my skull based multiple times (some even self-inflicted) and never went to the Sr for it. Th police report mentioned the injuries, and another witness is now confirming. Interesting that you only want to "wait" for information that disproves your theories.

Sorry but when someone says they had their skull bashed in.....to me that implies some serious head trauma which would involve medical attention. To each his own I guess....

As far as my theory goes, whether or not Zimmerman took some blows to the head is irrelevant to me. Zimmerman created this whole situation. You can defend his actions if you want, that’s your choice.


Jusster

Look again, I never said "bashed in" - you added that, or read what wasn't there. Funny how that happens sometimes...

[sjfcontrol]

Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

How was he acting like a thug wanna be that day? Was it the skittles? The iced tea? Walking home in the rain? Oh wait, is it the grey hoodie, blue jeans, and white sneakers?

Jusster

No, by not calling 911 to resolve the issue, or just going home, but fixing it himself. I thought I was clear.

[ScooterSissy]

Everybody is condemning Zimmerman for acting like a wannabe cop.
Few are condemning Martin for acting like a thug (not wannabe). The reason he wouldn't call 911 if he felt "the old fat white-boy" was a threat was that it would ruin his street cred. He'd rather resolve the situation himself.

Yes, that is supposition, too.

How was he acting like a thug wanna be that day? Was it the skittles? The iced tea? Walking home in the rain? Oh wait, is it the grey hoodie, blue jeans, and white sneakers?

Jusster

No, breaking a guy's nose, pounding his head into the pavement. And that is (apparently) what got him shot. You keep pretending that Zimmerman is in the wrong, but from everything we've seen , no one was anything illegal until Martin got physical. And it got him shot.

[Jusster]

They didn't shoot the guy. They didn't jump the guy and pound his head into the pavement.

If you don't see the difference between the situations, I can't help you, so I'll stop trying.

That works, because if you ask me you are sensationalizing what took place with the head pounded into the pavement statement. You pretty much lost me at that point.


Jusster

[Keith B]

OK folks, you have bounced back and forth all day. Just agree to disagree. You have two pages of arguing and are getting nowhere with each other.

[Jusster]

Look again, I never said "bashed in" - you added that, or read what wasn't there. Funny how that happens sometimes...

You complain about that but then you say his head was pounded into the pavement? OoooKaayyyyy

Jusster

[Jusster]

OK folks, you have bounced back and forth all day. Just agree to disagree. You have two pages of arguing and are getting nowhere with each other.

Okay Keith....I'm done....It was just a friendly discussion for me, but it's getting hard to keep up with all the different discussions anyways.

I'm out....thanks for the debate all...


Jusster

[baldeagle]

Actually it is....the eyewitnesses may have seen Martin on top at one point, but if you listen to the 911 call's there are other witnesses who state that Zimmerman was on top at some point as well. In fact, they say another eyewitness has come forward as well who said they saw the whole thing.

"May have" seen Martin on top? "John" is unequivocal that Martin was on top, was beating up Zimmerman and that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Furthermore, there are no other witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top. The two women speculated that Zimmerman was on top, but they didn't even go outside until after the shot was fired, so they couldn't possibly know.

I am in the process of transcribing the interview with the other witness who "saw the whole thing". That's a big stretch. He first heard voices and looked out his window to see what it was. He saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. Then he went and did other things inside his house. The noises got louder, so he went back to the window and opened it to see what the commotion was. Then he turned away from the window, at which point he heard cries for help, so he went back to the window and looked a third time. He saw two men scuffling and he heard a shot. He said he couldn't really say who was on top. He said he "believed" it was the larger man.

Trayvon was 6'3" and 160. Zimmerman is 5'9" and 170. Who's the larger man?

No offense taken, but I’m sure there will be bullet trajectories that will come into play to determine if Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired. There will probably be some type of analysis of Zimmermans clothing to determine if the blood splatter or stippling are consistent with his story as well. There will be medical evidence introduced as to Zimmermans true injuries…etc…etc….it’s just my opinion but I have a feeling these things will determine whether Zimmerman goes home or to the big house.

Jusster

I would agree that there should be plenty of forensic evidence on both Trayvon and Zimmerman. Power burns, stippling, blood spatter, all should tell the story.