17y/o Killed By Neighborhood Watch/CHL

[VMI77]

At the bond hearing he somehow forgot that he had $135,000 in his bank, yet the testimony assured the court that he was without money. He was ordered to turn in his passport(s) and turned in the only one he said he had, keeping the other a secret. Misunderstanding??? Not very likely. Proving he has the capability to lie in court is not going to help him at all. It makes me wonder what else he has said that is not true ("officer - it was self defense - honest!"). He is helping tighten the noose around his neck. If your a documented liar, the prosecution tends to have a field day!

Apparently, you believe the prosecution. It may be true and it may not. Personally, since this is an obvious political prosecution, I don't believe the prosecutors are telling the truth. For instance, Zimmerman may have a current passport that replaced an older passport he kept, and the prosecution is perfectly capable of claiming he has two passports, which may be true in a trivial sense, but isn't true in reality. I don't know either way, but there is plenty of reason to be suspicious of the prosecution. The Duke rape case is the clearest indication how prosecutors build phony cases.

[A-R]

just think if he would have had some pepper spray and used it instead of a gun this would have never been

Because pepper spray is 100% effective man stopper, right?

[HerbM]

Judge Lester revoked Zimmerman's bail due to his having misrepresented the amount of money he had -- the PayPal account.

This is going to hurt him in public opinion quite a bit.

The Judge said he had mislead the Court — the Judge had that much evidence. There was nothing improper about revoking the bail based on what was before the judge.

The Judge also made it clear, despite O’Mara’s deferals, that Zimmerman’s statements to the police were going to easily arguable as EXCULPATORY — he’s reviewed them he said. (He acknowledge the State would argue the opposite, but made it clear that O’Mara would have not trouble with this.)

That pretty much clear’s up the only thing we couldn’t be sure about: Did Zimmerman say something that convicted him of some crime?

It was always doubtful, but now it seems to be practically impossible.

Zimmerman screwed up. Maybe through simple stupidity and misunderstanding, but he screwed up.

If it wasn’t criminal nor malicious, then he has a chance to explain it to Judge Lester in a few weeks, take his chewing out, pay his (maybe increased bail), and get out — otherwise he sits in jail until the Immunity Hearing.

If you defend yourself with a firearm by killing (or even just threatening or wounding) a criminal you must be prepared to have EVERY ASPECT of your life turned over and exposed publicly before you will stand any chance of moving on.

To do otherwise is just as foolish as not learning how to use the firearm, or not learning enough combatives to use it effectively. Not criminal, but foolish.

--
HerbM

[HerbM]

At the bond hearing he somehow forgot that he had $135,000 in his bank, yet the testimony assured the court that he was without money. He was ordered to turn in his passport(s) and turned in the only one he said he had, keeping the other a secret. Misunderstanding??? Not very likely. Proving he has the capability to lie in court is not going to help him at all. It makes me wonder what else he has said that is not true ("officer - it was self defense - honest!"). He is helping tighten the noose around his neck. If your a documented liar, the prosecution tends to have a field day!

The above is as least a partial misrepresentation -- probably having heard if from the media.

The passport issue was no big deal (Judge Lester pretty much ignored it.) A lost & revoked passport was found, and given to his lawyer some time ago, and it had not made it's way to the court. No harm, no foul.

Zimmerman may or may not have done something purposely malicious or criminal, but he definitely screwed up and the judge revoked bail. Judge Lester also made it clear he would entertain an explanation and new bail request shortly.

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason? (Remember at the bail hearing, he had been in jail for a week or so and hadn't spent much time with then new lawyer O'Mara.)

I don't want to actually defend his actions in this misrepresentation, but it is still unclear what it fully constituted.

Zimmerman definitely screwed up in this, whether maliciously or stupidly but take NOTHING the media says at face value.

[WildBill]

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason?

Zimmerman did not screw up nor was he being stupid. If Zimmerman did not have a lawyer and stood up to speak for himself during the hearing without being directly asked a question, the judge would have told him to sit down and shut up.

[smoothoperator]

If your a documented liar, the prosecution tends to have a field day!

A documented liar? You mean like the special prostitute?

[HerbM]

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason?

Zimmerman did not screw up nor was he being stupid. If Zimmerman did not have a lawyer and stood up to speak for himself during the hearing without being directly asked a question, the judge would have told him to sit down and shut up.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against that being part of how Zimmerman made this mistake -- it had occurred to me already but it hasn't yet been offered as part of the explanation.

The prosecutor was willing again to misrepresent the facts (re: speak to his wife in "code") and made a big deal out of what he knew was a revoked (due to loss) passport that HE AlSO KNEW Zimmerman's lawyer had long had in his possession.

--
HerbM

[VoiceofReason]

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason?

Zimmerman did not screw up nor was he being stupid. If Zimmerman did not have a lawyer and stood up to speak for himself during the hearing without being directly asked a question, the judge would have told him to sit down and shut up.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against that being part of how Zimmerman made this mistake -- it had occurred to me already but it hasn't yet been offered as part of the explanation.

The prosecutor was willing again to misrepresent the facts (re: speak to his wife in "code") and made a big deal out of what he knew was a revoked (due to loss) passport that HE AlSO KNEW Zimmerman's lawyer had long had in his possession.

--
HerbM

Sounds like
1. They have a judge that is hostile to the defense.
2. The bond is being used to punish and/or keep Zimmerman in jail, rather than guarantee his appearance. What the judge is saying is “if I knew you could make that bond, I would have set it higher”.

Let’s get this straight. Zimmerman is being persecuted, not prosecuted. They will find something to convict him of.

If he is found not guilty of second degree murder, the race baiters will do all they can to stir up riots and looting. The government will then find something else to charge him with.

This perversion of the “justice” system will only get worse until the honest, law abiding, working people get off the couch and get involved to change our political system.

[jmra]

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason?

Zimmerman did not screw up nor was he being stupid. If Zimmerman did not have a lawyer and stood up to speak for himself during the hearing without being directly asked a question, the judge would have told him to sit down and shut up.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against that being part of how Zimmerman made this mistake -- it had occurred to me already but it hasn't yet been offered as part of the explanation.

The prosecutor was willing again to misrepresent the facts (re: speak to his wife in "code") and made a big deal out of what he knew was a revoked (due to loss) passport that HE AlSO KNEW Zimmerman's lawyer had long had in his possession.

--
HerbM

Sounds like
1. They have a judge that is hostile to the defense.
2. The bond is being used to punish and/or keep Zimmerman in jail, rather than guarantee his appearance. What the judge is saying is “if I knew you could make that bond, I would have set it higher”.

Let’s get this straight. Zimmerman is being persecuted, not prosecuted. They will find something to convict him of.

If he is found not guilty of second degree murder, the race baiters will do all they can to stir up riots and looting. The government will then find something else to charge him with.

This perversion of the “justice” system will only get worse until the honest, law abiding, working people get off the couch and get involved to change our political system.

Very well stated.

[The Annoyed Man]

2. The bond is being used to punish and/or keep Zimmerman in jail, rather than guarantee his appearance. What the judge is saying is “if I knew you could make that bond, I would have set it higher”.

This.

As I said in the other thread about his bail being revoked:

• It may well be that the bulk of the money was collected during or just after the bail hearing, and he really didn't have access to it at the time. I donated $25 myself, and that was probably a day or two before the bail hearing, and it was in response to his attempt to raise money for his legal defense, not for bail as he had not yet been incarcerated at that time. It can take a day or two sometimes for money to show up in your Paypal account. All that needs to happen is for someone to subpoena his Paypal account records and that will answer the question.
  
  In either case, he was a low flight risk. He may well have actually lost, and then found his other passport. My current passport was procured because my mother lost my previous one sometime between 1971 and 2005. It's conceivable that in going through her things, the old one might turn up. That's two passports. Does that make me any more likely to flee if I were in his shoes? No. And "cryptic conservation" about the second passport might mean nothing more than "holy crap! I found the other....you know....passport...... the one you lost? Remember? What should I do with it?"

[bigbang]

The judge should have to reimburse him the money he paid to the bail bondsman. Out of the judge's pockets, not from the decent taxpayers of Florida who are already paying way too much for this miscarriage of justice.

[Heartland Patriot]

In Judge Lester's words, Zimmerman 'sat there like a potted plant' while the Court was being mislead, not that he had actually lied. Did he do this due to misunderstanding or mere stupidity or for some other reason?

Zimmerman did not screw up nor was he being stupid. If Zimmerman did not have a lawyer and stood up to speak for himself during the hearing without being directly asked a question, the judge would have told him to sit down and shut up.

I wouldn't necessarily argue against that being part of how Zimmerman made this mistake -- it had occurred to me already but it hasn't yet been offered as part of the explanation.

The prosecutor was willing again to misrepresent the facts (re: speak to his wife in "code") and made a big deal out of what he knew was a revoked (due to loss) passport that HE AlSO KNEW Zimmerman's lawyer had long had in his possession.

--
HerbM

Sounds like
1. They have a judge that is hostile to the defense.
2. The bond is being used to punish and/or keep Zimmerman in jail, rather than guarantee his appearance. What the judge is saying is “if I knew you could make that bond, I would have set it higher”.

Let’s get this straight. Zimmerman is being persecuted, not prosecuted. They will find something to convict him of.

If he is found not guilty of second degree murder, the race baiters will do all they can to stir up riots and looting. The government will then find something else to charge him with.

This perversion of the “justice” system will only get worse until the honest, law abiding, working people get off the couch and get involved to change our political system.

Better than I could put it. I will only add that just because a situation is a certain way, doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean we should simply accept it.

[HerbM]

I am a big fan of Judge Lester after having watched all of the televised access to his courtroom available.

He is a straight shooter from every indication.

He put Zimmerman back in jail because he believes the Court was mislead -- right or wrong.

He has already signaled he will entertain a new bail application, and that Zimmerman's statements to the police are exculpatory -- a big deal, and he didn't need to make this point.

He knows the law and will follow it, and in fact the way he dropped the hammer on Zimmerman is a good sign for that.

Bond is both your WORD and your BAIL -- if you mislead you don't get BOND. Personally, I think this 'misleading' or 'lying' may be much ado about nothing or very little, but he had that evidence and for now Zimmerman will sit in jail.


Were I Zimmerman, my biggest prayers would be for Judge Lester's good health until I could get a Stand Your Ground Immunity Hearing -- the Judge will dismiss at that hearing simply because Zimmerman is clearly innocent under the law and this judge follows the LAW.

At that hearing, the judge alone decides if the PREPONDERANCE of the evidence favors self-defense.

[57Coastie]

Right on, Herb. Since this bail revocation we have seen an endless trail of "what ifs," "but supposes," "it could have happened this ways;" endless speculation about the innocence of Z so far as this episode is concerned.

Speculation, on the internet, quickly hardens into self-perceived fact, in the minds of those who do not look beyond somebody else's sometimes weird guesses.

The judge is interested in facts. We will soon see if he too takes wild eyed guesses.

Jim

[VoiceofReason]

I am a big fan of Judge Lester after having watched all of the televised access to his courtroom available.

He is a straight shooter from every indication.

He put Zimmerman back in jail because he believes the Court was mislead -- right or wrong.

He has already signaled he will entertain a new bail application, and that Zimmerman's statements to the police are exculpatory -- a big deal, and he didn't need to make this point.

He knows the law and will follow it, and in fact the way he dropped the hammer on Zimmerman is a good sign for that.

Bond is both your WORD and your BAIL -- if you mislead you don't get BOND. Personally, I think this 'misleading' or 'lying' may be much ado about nothing or very little, but he had that evidence and for now Zimmerman will sit in jail.


Were I Zimmerman, my biggest prayers would be for Judge Lester's good health until I could get a Stand Your Ground Immunity Hearing -- the Judge will dismiss at that hearing simply because Zimmerman is clearly innocent under the law and this judge follows the LAW.

At that hearing, the judge alone decides if the PREPONDERANCE of the evidence favors self-defense.

I sincerely hope you are right. That would probably go a long way in restoring people’s faith in the justice system, including mine.

I would still expect the persecutor or USDOJ to find something else to charge him with. I hope someone saved and documented the early articles from the main stream media so attorneys can sue them on his behalf. There are still a lot of people that would harm him. The best thing that could happen from this is for him to end up with enough money to go anywhere, anytime he wants.