in light of recent public education threads (long)
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in light of recent public education threads (long)
Much has been made lately on this forum about the state of public schools and how dysfunctional they are. I hear arguments about public schools and education a lot because I am an educator; and, people for whatever reason feel the need to tell me what is wrong with the industry that has been my career for over 20 years. I have been a classroom teacher, bus driver, and administrator in both large districts in cities, and small rural ones as well.
When you consider stereotypes, I am somewhat of an anomaly from what most consider an educator to be…I tend to be conservative when it comes to most issues: finances, social issues, gun control, state’s rights versus federal rights, capital punishment, and abortion. So, it is with this background that I feel the need to address some of the current topics about public education in Texas.
Much criticism has been leveled in the media about a curriculum known as cscope. One of the greatest untruths being perpetuated about cscope is that it aligns to the common core standards. Texas did not adopt the common core standards and cscope DOES NOT align to the common core standards. Cscope aligns to the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills that were developed under the authority of the State Board of Education and adopted by our elected officials in the Texas legislature. These standards or TEKS can be found in links at the bottom of this webpage http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=6148
When you consider most arguments leveled against cscope they usually involve TEKS from social studies courses. There are those who would have you believe that cscope is proselytizing for Islam and is a back door way of indoctrinating our kids to become Muslim. Recently a teacher at Lumberton ISD had students who voluntarily dressed in burqas as part of a world geography class. There are those who would have you believe that cscope was behind this. Wrong! Here’s the statement from Lumberton ISD http://www.lumberton.k12.tx.us/educatio ... il&id=1500
Even Texas Education Commissioner Williams acknowledged that the lesson had nothing to do with cscope.
Why might people believe that cscope is promoting Islam? Well look no further than the TEKS…you know, the standards put together at the direction of the SBOE and passed into law by the Texas legislature? Here’s a sampling from World Geography…
Culture. The student understands how the components of culture affect the way people live and shape the characteristics of regions. The student is expected to:
(A) describe distinctive cultural patterns and landscapes associated with different places in Texas, the United States, and other regions of the world and how these patterns influenced the processes of innovation and diffusion;
(B) describe elements of culture, including language, religion, beliefs and customs, institutions, and technologies;
(C) explain ways various groups of people perceive the characteristics of their own and other cultures, places, and regions differently; and
(17) Culture. The student understands the distribution, patterns, and characteristics of different cultures. The student is expected to:
(A) describe and compare patterns of culture such as language, religion, land use, education, and customs that make specific regions of the world distinctive;
(B) describe major world religions, including animism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Sikhism, and their spatial distribution;
Could students wearing burqas be part of a learning activity in meeting the above listed standards? Yes. Was it wise on the part of the teacher to allow such a thing given the post 911 climate? No. Would I have done this in my classroom? No, no more that I would smear ashes on a Muslim kid on Ash Wednesday. Do I actually believe that this incident is proof that cscope is promoting Islam and indoctrinating kids? Ridiculous. But there are many who read, listen and watch it sensationalized on such media outlets as The Blaze, Word Net Daily, Alex Jones Info Wars and others and will believe the black helicopters are on the way. And there are those who tout charter schools as the way to guard against our kids being indoctrinated by the claimed Muslim agenda of cscope and public schools in general. Well, those same folks might find it surprising that there are over 30 charter schools in the state of Texas that are backed or sponsored by a common group of Turkish Muslims with many more sponsored across the United States. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... kish-imam/
Much the same argument can be made about the claims that cscope promotes socialism and communism over free enterprise capitalism. A close examination of a sampling of TEKS in social studies reveals standards that address various economic systems.
(9) Economics. The student understands the various ways in which people organize economic systems. The student is expected to:
(A) compare ways in which various societies organize the production and distribution of goods and services;
(B) compare and contrast free enterprise, socialist, and communist economies in various contemporary societies, including the benefits of the U.S. free enterprise system;
(C) understand the importance of morality and ethics in maintaining a functional free enterprise system; and
(D) examine the record of collective, non-free market economic systems in contemporary world societies.
And, so what we have is hysteria fueled by the media and social media when parents find out that their kids are learning about socialism and communism in school today.
Then there is the recent story from Flour Bluff ISD in Corpus Christi about test items which paint the U.S. as bringing 911 on itself. This too was falsely reported as being from cscope. The test items used and video shown had nothing to do with cscope. They were part of a program called Safari Montage that has never been affiliated with or endorsed by cscope. Oh, but mom got over 5,000 hits on a facebook post telling the story and used the word cscope so it must be true.
And let’s not forget the Boston Tea Party debacle. Terrorism or Patriot stand? The truth is perspective plays a role in interpreting history and understanding different cultures. In this much misunderstood lesson from cscope, students were given a mock press release about the incident written from the perspective of the British. It was a way to illustrate the role perspective plays interpreting history as Old Gringo and others have pointed out in previous discussions. Does that mean that cscope believes and is promoting that the Boston Tea Party was a terrorist act? Well, I think the answer lies in the fact that we’re not British. But understanding other cultures and perspectives helps us to understand why today some refer to us as a nation of infidels. Does understanding that perspective mean that it’s true or we should sympathize to them? No. But understanding the perspective of radical ideology is telling of their actions toward those they perceive as infidels. Remember Daniel Pearl?
All of this recent discussion brings up another criticism of public schools…that we’re somehow not educating kids to be independent thinkers who will become the innovators of tomorrow. Well how can we encourage kids to be independent thinkers if we only allow certain perspectives, certain religions, and certain economic systems to be taught in school? Are we trying to over protect kids by denying such things exist in our world? There are those who say public school is dumbing down education. Well it seems to me the restriction of information stifling free thinking is what is dumbing down education.
There are those conservatives who think public schools do a horrible job of educating kids and should be replaced by vouchers, and charters. Well, let me open a charter school with enrollment criteria, less oversight and I should be able to outperform public schools too, but research has shown that most do not over a sustained period of time. Make no mistake about it there are vendors and special interest groups that are chomping at the bit for public school reform to happen and charters to become the norm because it represents an untapped market.
Critics of public schools often cite that schools should be run like a business and poor performing schools should be shut down. But these same critics seem not to comprehend that we are charged with educating everyone who comes through our doors: white, black, Asian, Hispanic, straight, gay, children of illegal’s, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, special needs, and the severe and profound, etc. Unlike businesses, we don’t have the luxury of throwing away or sending back raw material that we find unappealing. Our raw material is human capital. We play every card we are dealt, good or bad. And, our performance is assessed on how well we do in educating each of the groups no matter how diverse; all courtesy of sweeping legislation which federalized education at an unprecedented level. That legislation was called No Child Left Behind brought to you by none other than George Bush. You know, a conservative…wait I thought conservatives valued less intervention of government in what has traditionally been a state issue? Here’s an idea, let’s enact legislation that measures the performance of politicians based on performance factors in the districts they represent; factors such as unemployment, their districts’ portions of the gross domestic product, crime rates, welfare rates, and rates of un-wed mothers to name a few. If they don’t measure up, we will just sanction them into doing a better job or get rid of them. Essentially, this is what has been done to public schools. Local control is slowly eroding away at the hands of politicians.
No Child Left Behind ushered in an unprecedented emphasis on standardized testing in schools which has trickled down to the states. In Texas with the transition from the TAKS assessment system to STAAR, there are 45 assessment days required for standardized testing. This represents 25% of the instructional days in a typical 180 day school year. This does not include local assessments given by teachers for the sake of calculating grades! Luckily, there is a movement in the Texas legislature to do away with some of the testing requirements but that is yet to be determined.
The truth is, Texas public schools do struggle, but do a remarkable job for what they have been burdened with. But the real question is who is to blame? I promise you the answer to the question is not as simple as what the media would have you believe about the issues. But don’t take my word for it. I encourage you to research a little deeper before you paint with the wide brush. So there you have it, a different conservative perspective on public schools. Flame away...
When you consider stereotypes, I am somewhat of an anomaly from what most consider an educator to be…I tend to be conservative when it comes to most issues: finances, social issues, gun control, state’s rights versus federal rights, capital punishment, and abortion. So, it is with this background that I feel the need to address some of the current topics about public education in Texas.
Much criticism has been leveled in the media about a curriculum known as cscope. One of the greatest untruths being perpetuated about cscope is that it aligns to the common core standards. Texas did not adopt the common core standards and cscope DOES NOT align to the common core standards. Cscope aligns to the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills that were developed under the authority of the State Board of Education and adopted by our elected officials in the Texas legislature. These standards or TEKS can be found in links at the bottom of this webpage http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=6148
When you consider most arguments leveled against cscope they usually involve TEKS from social studies courses. There are those who would have you believe that cscope is proselytizing for Islam and is a back door way of indoctrinating our kids to become Muslim. Recently a teacher at Lumberton ISD had students who voluntarily dressed in burqas as part of a world geography class. There are those who would have you believe that cscope was behind this. Wrong! Here’s the statement from Lumberton ISD http://www.lumberton.k12.tx.us/educatio ... il&id=1500
Even Texas Education Commissioner Williams acknowledged that the lesson had nothing to do with cscope.
Why might people believe that cscope is promoting Islam? Well look no further than the TEKS…you know, the standards put together at the direction of the SBOE and passed into law by the Texas legislature? Here’s a sampling from World Geography…
Culture. The student understands how the components of culture affect the way people live and shape the characteristics of regions. The student is expected to:
(A) describe distinctive cultural patterns and landscapes associated with different places in Texas, the United States, and other regions of the world and how these patterns influenced the processes of innovation and diffusion;
(B) describe elements of culture, including language, religion, beliefs and customs, institutions, and technologies;
(C) explain ways various groups of people perceive the characteristics of their own and other cultures, places, and regions differently; and
(17) Culture. The student understands the distribution, patterns, and characteristics of different cultures. The student is expected to:
(A) describe and compare patterns of culture such as language, religion, land use, education, and customs that make specific regions of the world distinctive;
(B) describe major world religions, including animism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Sikhism, and their spatial distribution;
Could students wearing burqas be part of a learning activity in meeting the above listed standards? Yes. Was it wise on the part of the teacher to allow such a thing given the post 911 climate? No. Would I have done this in my classroom? No, no more that I would smear ashes on a Muslim kid on Ash Wednesday. Do I actually believe that this incident is proof that cscope is promoting Islam and indoctrinating kids? Ridiculous. But there are many who read, listen and watch it sensationalized on such media outlets as The Blaze, Word Net Daily, Alex Jones Info Wars and others and will believe the black helicopters are on the way. And there are those who tout charter schools as the way to guard against our kids being indoctrinated by the claimed Muslim agenda of cscope and public schools in general. Well, those same folks might find it surprising that there are over 30 charter schools in the state of Texas that are backed or sponsored by a common group of Turkish Muslims with many more sponsored across the United States. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... kish-imam/
Much the same argument can be made about the claims that cscope promotes socialism and communism over free enterprise capitalism. A close examination of a sampling of TEKS in social studies reveals standards that address various economic systems.
(9) Economics. The student understands the various ways in which people organize economic systems. The student is expected to:
(A) compare ways in which various societies organize the production and distribution of goods and services;
(B) compare and contrast free enterprise, socialist, and communist economies in various contemporary societies, including the benefits of the U.S. free enterprise system;
(C) understand the importance of morality and ethics in maintaining a functional free enterprise system; and
(D) examine the record of collective, non-free market economic systems in contemporary world societies.
And, so what we have is hysteria fueled by the media and social media when parents find out that their kids are learning about socialism and communism in school today.
Then there is the recent story from Flour Bluff ISD in Corpus Christi about test items which paint the U.S. as bringing 911 on itself. This too was falsely reported as being from cscope. The test items used and video shown had nothing to do with cscope. They were part of a program called Safari Montage that has never been affiliated with or endorsed by cscope. Oh, but mom got over 5,000 hits on a facebook post telling the story and used the word cscope so it must be true.
And let’s not forget the Boston Tea Party debacle. Terrorism or Patriot stand? The truth is perspective plays a role in interpreting history and understanding different cultures. In this much misunderstood lesson from cscope, students were given a mock press release about the incident written from the perspective of the British. It was a way to illustrate the role perspective plays interpreting history as Old Gringo and others have pointed out in previous discussions. Does that mean that cscope believes and is promoting that the Boston Tea Party was a terrorist act? Well, I think the answer lies in the fact that we’re not British. But understanding other cultures and perspectives helps us to understand why today some refer to us as a nation of infidels. Does understanding that perspective mean that it’s true or we should sympathize to them? No. But understanding the perspective of radical ideology is telling of their actions toward those they perceive as infidels. Remember Daniel Pearl?
All of this recent discussion brings up another criticism of public schools…that we’re somehow not educating kids to be independent thinkers who will become the innovators of tomorrow. Well how can we encourage kids to be independent thinkers if we only allow certain perspectives, certain religions, and certain economic systems to be taught in school? Are we trying to over protect kids by denying such things exist in our world? There are those who say public school is dumbing down education. Well it seems to me the restriction of information stifling free thinking is what is dumbing down education.
There are those conservatives who think public schools do a horrible job of educating kids and should be replaced by vouchers, and charters. Well, let me open a charter school with enrollment criteria, less oversight and I should be able to outperform public schools too, but research has shown that most do not over a sustained period of time. Make no mistake about it there are vendors and special interest groups that are chomping at the bit for public school reform to happen and charters to become the norm because it represents an untapped market.
Critics of public schools often cite that schools should be run like a business and poor performing schools should be shut down. But these same critics seem not to comprehend that we are charged with educating everyone who comes through our doors: white, black, Asian, Hispanic, straight, gay, children of illegal’s, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, special needs, and the severe and profound, etc. Unlike businesses, we don’t have the luxury of throwing away or sending back raw material that we find unappealing. Our raw material is human capital. We play every card we are dealt, good or bad. And, our performance is assessed on how well we do in educating each of the groups no matter how diverse; all courtesy of sweeping legislation which federalized education at an unprecedented level. That legislation was called No Child Left Behind brought to you by none other than George Bush. You know, a conservative…wait I thought conservatives valued less intervention of government in what has traditionally been a state issue? Here’s an idea, let’s enact legislation that measures the performance of politicians based on performance factors in the districts they represent; factors such as unemployment, their districts’ portions of the gross domestic product, crime rates, welfare rates, and rates of un-wed mothers to name a few. If they don’t measure up, we will just sanction them into doing a better job or get rid of them. Essentially, this is what has been done to public schools. Local control is slowly eroding away at the hands of politicians.
No Child Left Behind ushered in an unprecedented emphasis on standardized testing in schools which has trickled down to the states. In Texas with the transition from the TAKS assessment system to STAAR, there are 45 assessment days required for standardized testing. This represents 25% of the instructional days in a typical 180 day school year. This does not include local assessments given by teachers for the sake of calculating grades! Luckily, there is a movement in the Texas legislature to do away with some of the testing requirements but that is yet to be determined.
The truth is, Texas public schools do struggle, but do a remarkable job for what they have been burdened with. But the real question is who is to blame? I promise you the answer to the question is not as simple as what the media would have you believe about the issues. But don’t take my word for it. I encourage you to research a little deeper before you paint with the wide brush. So there you have it, a different conservative perspective on public schools. Flame away...
Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Heard something on the radio either today or yesterday about a woman here in Texas whose child was given a test and one of the questions had to do with placing blame for the 9/11 terrorist act. It was multiple choice question and the correct answer was supposed to be that the U.S. was responsible because we abuse our power around the world or something like that. The mother saw her son's test and became quite upset at the question and also that her son scored 100%. He told his mom that he knew the correct answer, but chose the answer the teacher wanted to get a better score. She took this to the Principle and he didn't see what the problem was and agreed with the question and expected outcome.
Are you aware of this or know which curriculum this is from?
I did a quick search and found this from a few days ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/21/te ... r-attacks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Are you aware of this or know which curriculum this is from?
I did a quick search and found this from a few days ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/21/te ... r-attacks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Yes...that is the incident I referred to at Flour Bluff ISD. It has been falsely reported by some that it was from cscope. The materials used by the teacher were from Safari Montage. It even says so in the article you posted.C-dub wrote: Are you aware of this or know which curriculum this is from?
I did a quick search and found this from a few days ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/21/te" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... r-attacks/
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
So here are some interesting questions not addressed in your OP
1. The charge per student ($7 per pupil per year) for the use of CSCOPE seem excessive. Why? Who agreed to allow Texas school districts to pay these charges across the State and what mechanism is available to determine the exact extent to which the CSCOPE materials are a success or a failure?.
2. Why are there lengthy non-disclosure agreements with serious penalties attached to violations required to be signed by teachers over CSCOPE materials. I worked an in industry which had trade secrets which would have definitely given the competitors an advantage if those secrets had been revealed and we never had anything like these. What has CSCOPE to hide?
3. In that same vain, why did it take so long for the SBOE to get access to all the CSCOPE materials? Further, who in each of the school districts that is using CSCOPE has seen all of the 1,500 sets of materials and approved them for use in that district? If not, how can any administrative team authorize and pay for materials that they haven't reviewed and under whose counsel did they do that?
4. Why are their anecdotal stories about CSCOPE driving teachers from their positions? If the materials are as innocuous as you have stated, why would any teacher object to them?
5. CSCOPE and all of the other programs aside, do you not believe that there is a strong to rampant Liberal bias in the schools? Surely you don't contest that such a bias exists in our higher education system, including our major Texas colleges and universities. How is that bias not filtering down to the lowest levels in our public education system when the teachers who working them are products of the heavily biased teacher training. Why are there never stories about Conservative bias to at least mirror the Liberal ones when the media which would report those stories is heavily Liberal biased itself? For me, CSCOPE is just a means to an end and nothing would change if CSCOPE weren't used. From the ancedotes provided, it simply facilities the result. It does provide specific examples of some of the lessons that are being taught and those have been hard to come by before.
I'll freely admit that it is every difficult for those of us outside of the education community to understand what is related to what. TEKS, Common Core? As a concerned citizen, I'm denied access to all of that. I can only rely on those who have done investigative work and I know that I must discount much of that the same way as I discount just about everything that Alex Jones says, even though Matt Drudge picks some of it up from time to time.
My perspective is that the fundamental flaw in public education is that the Federal government is involved. They have used the purse strings to control the schools and, like the post office, the result has not been beneficial to the purpose of educating kids. I would strongly agree that there are teachers like yourself who are dedicated to teaching kids. I will also tell you that, like in the Chicago public schools, there are vast numbers of teachers who should never been in front of a class room. I saw some of that first hand in Philadelphia. The extent to which that same problem exists in the Texas schools is not clear to me.
I agree that it is a complex problem. There are clearly some ISDs who are well run and do a good job, sometimes in spite of the circumstances in which they operate. Overall, we are spending a lot more money per student in the US than in other countries and the overall performance of the schools across the country is not improving. I think those who are calling for the schools to be run like businesses are tuned into that problem. The solution, like just about everything else that the government controls, is to throw more money at it. That isn't working any better than the proposed gun controls are going to work to solve gun crimes.
1. The charge per student ($7 per pupil per year) for the use of CSCOPE seem excessive. Why? Who agreed to allow Texas school districts to pay these charges across the State and what mechanism is available to determine the exact extent to which the CSCOPE materials are a success or a failure?.
2. Why are there lengthy non-disclosure agreements with serious penalties attached to violations required to be signed by teachers over CSCOPE materials. I worked an in industry which had trade secrets which would have definitely given the competitors an advantage if those secrets had been revealed and we never had anything like these. What has CSCOPE to hide?
3. In that same vain, why did it take so long for the SBOE to get access to all the CSCOPE materials? Further, who in each of the school districts that is using CSCOPE has seen all of the 1,500 sets of materials and approved them for use in that district? If not, how can any administrative team authorize and pay for materials that they haven't reviewed and under whose counsel did they do that?
4. Why are their anecdotal stories about CSCOPE driving teachers from their positions? If the materials are as innocuous as you have stated, why would any teacher object to them?
5. CSCOPE and all of the other programs aside, do you not believe that there is a strong to rampant Liberal bias in the schools? Surely you don't contest that such a bias exists in our higher education system, including our major Texas colleges and universities. How is that bias not filtering down to the lowest levels in our public education system when the teachers who working them are products of the heavily biased teacher training. Why are there never stories about Conservative bias to at least mirror the Liberal ones when the media which would report those stories is heavily Liberal biased itself? For me, CSCOPE is just a means to an end and nothing would change if CSCOPE weren't used. From the ancedotes provided, it simply facilities the result. It does provide specific examples of some of the lessons that are being taught and those have been hard to come by before.
I'll freely admit that it is every difficult for those of us outside of the education community to understand what is related to what. TEKS, Common Core? As a concerned citizen, I'm denied access to all of that. I can only rely on those who have done investigative work and I know that I must discount much of that the same way as I discount just about everything that Alex Jones says, even though Matt Drudge picks some of it up from time to time.
My perspective is that the fundamental flaw in public education is that the Federal government is involved. They have used the purse strings to control the schools and, like the post office, the result has not been beneficial to the purpose of educating kids. I would strongly agree that there are teachers like yourself who are dedicated to teaching kids. I will also tell you that, like in the Chicago public schools, there are vast numbers of teachers who should never been in front of a class room. I saw some of that first hand in Philadelphia. The extent to which that same problem exists in the Texas schools is not clear to me.
I agree that it is a complex problem. There are clearly some ISDs who are well run and do a good job, sometimes in spite of the circumstances in which they operate. Overall, we are spending a lot more money per student in the US than in other countries and the overall performance of the schools across the country is not improving. I think those who are calling for the schools to be run like businesses are tuned into that problem. The solution, like just about everything else that the government controls, is to throw more money at it. That isn't working any better than the proposed gun controls are going to work to solve gun crimes.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
chasfm11 wrote:So here are some interesting questions not addressed in your OP
1. The charge per student ($7 per pupil per year) for the use of CSCOPE seem excessive. Why? Who agreed to allow Texas school districts to pay these charges across the State and what mechanism is available to determine the exact extent to which the CSCOPE materials are a success or a failure?.
en hard to come by before. .....
... Overall, we are spending a lot more money per student in the US than in other countries and the overall performance of the schools across the country is not improving. I think those who are calling for the schools to be run like businesses are tuned into that problem. The solution, like just about everything else that the government controls, is to throw more money at it. That isn't working any better than the proposed gun controls are going to work to solve gun crimes.
Really you think $7 per student per year is too much to spend on ciruclum? Seriously I agree it Adds up when multiplied by thousands but do you really believe hat your children's educational material as are overpriced at $7 per head?
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
That the Jay Leno Show has a regular feature called "Jay Walking" where adults are stumped by simple facts that most reasonably educated people should know tells you something about the current state of affairs in our educational system. I saw another bit on the Jimmy Kimmel show where people had a tough time drawing their own home state. I'm sure that most educators are doing the best that they can under the circumstances. But is that good enough? I'd say probably not, since our students seem to get out performed in most categories by students in other counties. Of course those comparisons are only in subjects like math & science. I'm sure if we looked at criteria such as feelings or empathy or some other psycho-dribble, our kids would be at the top of the heap. But in the real world, you don't get credit for just showing up. Take the federal government out of education completely & have the state government responsible only for setting uniform standards & graduation criteria. The majority of the education responsibility should be taken at the local level. Because when someone says that charter schools & vouchers is just a way to profit from an untapped market, I say that the market is already being capitalized on by the current Box-O-Learning system. And it's clearly not doing the job.
Opinions expressed are subject to change without notice.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
This is one of the reasons that I cannot characterize myself as a Republican.
I think that every school district in the State of Texas should get an equal amount of money for each student across the board, regardless of school district. In my mind, that is equal opportunity.
I think that every school district in the State of Texas should get an equal amount of money for each student across the board, regardless of school district. In my mind, that is equal opportunity.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Interesting read! Thanks for taking the time to post it. Always nice to hear from someone in the mix who shines a little light on the issues.
"Moderation is the silken string running through the pearl-chain of all virtues", Thomas Fuller
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
This is NOT the total student cost. It is only for the CSCOPE materials. This is for the right to use the teacher prep items, slides, etc. that are part of the CSCOPE program. Think of it as an activity fee per student for each classroom where the materials are presented. Text books, tests, supplies and all of the other items that the students use are not part of the $7 charge. Nor is the calculation of time as a part of the the teacher salary and benefits, the school building, the administrative overhead, etc. No way is the total cost per student even close to $7 per student.Longhorn-breeder wrote:chasfm11 wrote:So here are some interesting questions not addressed in your OP
1. The charge per student ($7 per pupil per year) for the use of CSCOPE seem excessive. Why? Who agreed to allow Texas school districts to pay these charges across the State and what mechanism is available to determine the exact extent to which the CSCOPE materials are a success or a failure?.
en hard to come by before. .....
... Overall, we are spending a lot more money per student in the US than in other countries and the overall performance of the schools across the country is not improving. I think those who are calling for the schools to be run like businesses are tuned into that problem. The solution, like just about everything else that the government controls, is to throw more money at it. That isn't working any better than the proposed gun controls are going to work to solve gun crimes.
Really you think $7 per student per year is too much to spend on ciruclum? Seriously I agree it Adds up when multiplied by thousands but do you really believe hat your children's educational material as are overpriced at $7 per head?
http://www.fastexas.org/study/exec/spending.php
I don't pretend to understand the exact relationship between CSCOPE and the standardized testing. No one outside of a select few is permitted to see any of that - a problem in and of itself. I will tell that that any Liberal bias aside, I have a problem with materials that are supposedly geared toward "teaching the test." The purpose of standardized testing is supposed to be the assessment of learning that is taking place as part of the overall curriculum. When you build the curriculum around the standardized test, you have, in my view, the "tail wagging the dog."
I only have seen the standardized testing results (not the questions - I'm not allowed to see those) that our granddaughter brought home from 3rd grade. I have a permanent teaching certificate in PA and have completed Masters level work in college. I could not have passed the 3rd grade test, based on the results that I saw. Why? Test results were so bizarre and completely unrelated to anything that I've ever studied that it would have been impossible to understand without coaching the intent of the responses that I would have been expected to supply.
As the OP said, this is a complex matter. It is too complex. In the morass of SCOPE and other programs, the goals of education are being lost. I personally believe that our schools are too college oriented but even that is failing. I'm not happy about the sensationalism in this article but it does speak to my fundamental concern
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/ ... -colleges/
When 80% of the HS graduates from an area don't understand the fundamentals that are part of the curriculum, there is a problem. I don't believe the phenomenon is isolated to NYC based on the students that I've talked to from some of my local schools.
There is a great need for transparency. This is not NASA and a space vehicle that the government doesn't want to fall into Russian hands. It is public education. I agree that I, as a citizen, have an obligation to help to pay for the education system. I want to see what is going on with it. I want to see how the schools are being measured and how they are achieving their results. I want the local school officials to have and to take ownership of the materials that are being used to achieve those results. A lot of the problems with CSCOPE and other programs would go away if that kind of sunlight were shining on them.
Edit: correct the CSCOPE term
Last edited by chasfm11 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Example...Purplehood wrote:This is one of the reasons that I cannot characterize myself as a Republican.
I think that every school district in the State of Texas should get an equal amount of money for each student across the board, regardless of school district. In my mind, that is equal opportunity.
I live in a fast-growing district that is building new schools at a fast rate. Do I need more or less funding than a small rural district that is not building any new infrastructure?
Generally, I agree with you.. but.. it's not so simple...
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Nothing is ever simple and someone is always going to be dissatisfied with any given action. That is why a true Democracy never works.RoyGBiv wrote:Example...Purplehood wrote:This is one of the reasons that I cannot characterize myself as a Republican.
I think that every school district in the State of Texas should get an equal amount of money for each student across the board, regardless of school district. In my mind, that is equal opportunity.
I live in a fast-growing district that is building new schools at a fast rate. Do I need more or less funding than a small rural district that is not building any new infrastructure?
Generally, I agree with you.. but.. it's not so simple...
On your question above...a small rural district has far fewer pupils. Therefore it would receive far less funding.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
Actually, $7 per student is VERY economical compared to many commercial products on the market. Districts are not forced to "pay charges" but can spend some of their monies as they see fit. As far as who decided...that would be the local school boards at the proposal of superintendents. I think that it is impossible to "vet" CSCOPE materials (or any instructional materials) as a "success" or "failure". There are just simply to many other variables. That would be like saying If I wear Air Jordans I will be able to slam dunk like Michael. As an administrator, what I would be more concerned with what can be done is to determine the degree of alignment between the state standards (TEKS) adopted by SBOE and cscope.chasfm11 wrote:So here are some interesting questions not addressed in your OP
1. The charge per student ($7 per pupil per year) for the use of CSCOPE seem excessive. Why? Who agreed to allow Texas school districts to pay these charges across the State and what mechanism is available to determine the exact extent to which the CSCOPE materials are a success or a failure?.
The same reason there are license agreements for Microsoft Office...or FBI piracy warnings on your DVDs. It's my understanding that these are being revised to remove the threat of penalties and any appearance of secrecy.2. Why are there lengthy non-disclosure agreements with serious penalties attached to violations required to be signed by teachers over CSCOPE materials. I worked an in industry which had trade secrets which would have definitely given the competitors an advantage if those secrets had been revealed and we never had anything like these. What has CSCOPE to hide?
I'm not sure. I think if SBOE had access all along, the hysteria would not have mounted in the fashion that it has. Each district is responsible for reviewing their materials.3. In that same vain, why did it take so long for the SBOE to get access to all the CSCOPE materials? Further, who in each of the school districts that is using CSCOPE has seen all of the 1,500 sets of materials and approved them for use in that district? If not, how can any administrative team authorize and pay for materials that they haven't reviewed and under whose counsel did they do that?
I chuckle when I hear of these "anecdotal" stories. These arguments just don't hold up with me. It's as if these teachers want you to believe that cscope walked into their classroom and held them hostage. It's very akin to the gun control argument that guns kill people. Do you realize how hard it is to get rid of a teacher who is past a probationary contract? Any intent to non-renew a contract has to be given 45 instructional days prior to the end of the school year. That means by about the middle of March, if you intend to non-renew a teacher, you better have gotten stacks of documentation in order because the fight will be on. My point is this, an administrator simply can't get rid of a teacher because the administrator says Mr. Jones is not teaching cscope and I want him to. So, it's hard for me to believe that teachers are being driven from the classroom over cscope.4. Why are their anecdotal stories about CSCOPE driving teachers from their positions? If the materials are as innocuous as you have stated, why would any teacher object to them?
5. CSCOPE and all of the other programs aside, do you not believe that there is a strong to rampant Liberal bias in the schools? Surely you don't contest that such a bias exists in our higher education system, including our major Texas colleges and universities. How is that bias not filtering down to the lowest levels in our public education system when the teachers who working them are products of the heavily biased teacher training. Why are there never stories about Conservative bias to at least mirror the Liberal ones when the media which would report those stories is heavily Liberal biased itself?
To some extent, I would tend to agree with you. However, I think some of that perception stems from the general public hearing about how schools function without realizing that our hands are tied when it comes to a lot of issues because local control of our districts is eroding way. For example, I know people that just can't get past the fact that public schools provide instructional services to those who don't speak English in their native language. The cry foul and spout off about a liberal agenda. Well the SCOTUS opened that door back in the 80s with Plyler vs. Doe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe when Tyler ISD attempted to deny children of illegal aliens enrollment. So here you have a case where the SCOTUS made a compassionate decision to educate children regardless of their citizenship status. And yet, the public grumbles that public schools are wasting resources because not everyone speaks English, when in actuality, if we didn't have an illegal immigration problem, none of this would have happened in the first place.
Amen, brother!My perspective is that the fundamental flaw in public education is that the Federal government is involved.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
While I appreciate and agree with much of what you say, the bottom line is that students are graduating from our schools without basic skills; math, reading, spelling, composition, etc. The schools have failed to fix the problem. It's time for a different solution. First we must get the federal government completely out of education. They have no Constitutional right to be involved, and their involvement has destroyed the educational systems in this country. Then we must find a way to measure what's being taught (not teach to the test) and hold those who are failing the children accountable. Until we do those things, education will continue to be a miserable failure, parents will continue to be misled by hyperbole and children will continue to graduate without the basic skills that an elementary student used to have.
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Re: in light of recent public education threads (long)
I think public schools should be closed. They have fallen too far into government control to be resuscitated. The patient is beyond saving. The public has spent more and more every year, hideous sums of money, since I started school more than 60 years ago, yet nearly everyone agrees, from employers to college professors, that the resulting performance levels are worse than ever in terms of basic educational attainment, reading, spelling, math, etc. It would sure be wonderful to have a "student understand[s] how the components of culture affect the way people live and shape the characteristics of regions," but not if they were unable to count their change, or make change, without mechanical assistance, or spell the 15,000 or so most common words of the English language, or write several sentences into a paragraph or paragraphs.
Frankly, public schools have evolved into little more than baby-sitting services for prepubescent children and dating services for post-pubescents. Why not start over after a clean sweep?
I advocate vouchers, not as presently envisioned to be cashed in at public schools, though. Give the parent/guardian of each child (a daunting enough challenge in this culture these days!) a voucher for whatever amount the state decides to spend. It will be equal for all students. A far better solution would be to stop the state from giving any money, and lower taxes, but that runs the risk, if not the certainty, that the government would seize on low taxes to raise them back to fund other boondoggles. If the state got out of it all together, the parents would have income to cover the cost, as it should be.
Who would educate the children? Parochial schools do a pretty good job, I hear. Private schools do an excellent job in many cases, free of the administrivia of public schools yet still undoubtedly burdened with some part of it to comply with DOE reporting, record keeping etc. More private operations would spring up in place of public schools. Parents would be free to spend their voucher how they saw fit. If little Susy was on her way to being a Rhodes Scholar, the path would be there. If Johnnie was not going to be an academic, he might take a different path, chosen by the parents and modified from time to time as the kids matured. If the chosen provider wasn't getting the job done, take your business elsewhere.
What would happen to teachers? The good ones, who know what they are doing and are good at it will be immeasurably better off, in income, working conditions, respect and satisfaction. Really effective ones will attract paying customers. The lousy ones will be flipping burgers somewhere.
Just like there are shoppers who prefer better quality, or service or convenience, there are children who want, prefer and can benefit by very high level educational exposure. Whether we like it or not, there are many, most, who do not and efforts to inflict it on them is doomed to failure, frustration, guilt, feelings of inadequacy and worse. There will be the inevitable mismatches, of course, and those can be addressed because anytime a parent thinks they could do better elsewhere, they would free to move. This keeps the operators of those educational emporiums on the hop, too, because their "customers" can leave if they aren't getting their moneys worth, as they define it from time to time. Just like there is Nordies, there will be Walmarts, and Costco's and Macy's and Sears and Penneys, all competing for your business striving to offer what a parent wants.
The product of government is compulsion, uniformity, equality. The product of the marketplace is efficiency, satisfaction, truth, justice and the American Way.
For generations, American children learned to read and do math at one room schools often taught by teachers barely older than themselves and not much more exposed to "how the components of culture affect the way people live and shape the characteristics of regions" than themselves, but somehow they could read, write, do basic math, and learn the rest of what they needed or wanted to know. One factor missing these days, it seems, is wanting to learn. Past generations understood it was important, critical to survival. It is not seen that way now.
Despite the governments' best intentions and expensive exertions, "survival of the fittest" is a law that can be neither amended or repealed. Millions who were serous about learning received very adequate educations in what are seen today as appallingly crude circumstances. Ted Cruz's dad made it through UT, not because he had a splendid preparation but because he wanted to, badly. Me, too.
When I was 4 years old, I told my mom I was going to learn to read even if it took all week! By golly, I did, although it took a bit longer than a week, reading a foot of books a week, like I read that Thomas Edison claimed he did, for quite a few years.
Important details of my idea are yet to be completely figured out. I still haven't figured out what to do to preserve high school football. Somebody will come along with something, though.
Frankly, public schools have evolved into little more than baby-sitting services for prepubescent children and dating services for post-pubescents. Why not start over after a clean sweep?
I advocate vouchers, not as presently envisioned to be cashed in at public schools, though. Give the parent/guardian of each child (a daunting enough challenge in this culture these days!) a voucher for whatever amount the state decides to spend. It will be equal for all students. A far better solution would be to stop the state from giving any money, and lower taxes, but that runs the risk, if not the certainty, that the government would seize on low taxes to raise them back to fund other boondoggles. If the state got out of it all together, the parents would have income to cover the cost, as it should be.
Who would educate the children? Parochial schools do a pretty good job, I hear. Private schools do an excellent job in many cases, free of the administrivia of public schools yet still undoubtedly burdened with some part of it to comply with DOE reporting, record keeping etc. More private operations would spring up in place of public schools. Parents would be free to spend their voucher how they saw fit. If little Susy was on her way to being a Rhodes Scholar, the path would be there. If Johnnie was not going to be an academic, he might take a different path, chosen by the parents and modified from time to time as the kids matured. If the chosen provider wasn't getting the job done, take your business elsewhere.
What would happen to teachers? The good ones, who know what they are doing and are good at it will be immeasurably better off, in income, working conditions, respect and satisfaction. Really effective ones will attract paying customers. The lousy ones will be flipping burgers somewhere.
Just like there are shoppers who prefer better quality, or service or convenience, there are children who want, prefer and can benefit by very high level educational exposure. Whether we like it or not, there are many, most, who do not and efforts to inflict it on them is doomed to failure, frustration, guilt, feelings of inadequacy and worse. There will be the inevitable mismatches, of course, and those can be addressed because anytime a parent thinks they could do better elsewhere, they would free to move. This keeps the operators of those educational emporiums on the hop, too, because their "customers" can leave if they aren't getting their moneys worth, as they define it from time to time. Just like there is Nordies, there will be Walmarts, and Costco's and Macy's and Sears and Penneys, all competing for your business striving to offer what a parent wants.
The product of government is compulsion, uniformity, equality. The product of the marketplace is efficiency, satisfaction, truth, justice and the American Way.
For generations, American children learned to read and do math at one room schools often taught by teachers barely older than themselves and not much more exposed to "how the components of culture affect the way people live and shape the characteristics of regions" than themselves, but somehow they could read, write, do basic math, and learn the rest of what they needed or wanted to know. One factor missing these days, it seems, is wanting to learn. Past generations understood it was important, critical to survival. It is not seen that way now.
Despite the governments' best intentions and expensive exertions, "survival of the fittest" is a law that can be neither amended or repealed. Millions who were serous about learning received very adequate educations in what are seen today as appallingly crude circumstances. Ted Cruz's dad made it through UT, not because he had a splendid preparation but because he wanted to, badly. Me, too.
When I was 4 years old, I told my mom I was going to learn to read even if it took all week! By golly, I did, although it took a bit longer than a week, reading a foot of books a week, like I read that Thomas Edison claimed he did, for quite a few years.
Important details of my idea are yet to be completely figured out. I still haven't figured out what to do to preserve high school football. Somebody will come along with something, though.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.