Lost Values

[Keith B]

I think this is what we have lost in today's world with a lot of parents in raising their children.

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[mamabearCali]

It is from a bygone time. I know we should not say the former days are better than the latter because we do not speak with knowledge, but still. As much as I wish I could do as he suggests I cannot.

Instead of teaching my children about officer friendly I have to teach them that if they ever think a policeman is angry at them or that they are in trouble, they are to sit still, tell the LEO my name and ask for me or my husband and not say anything else, because police are permitted to lie to my children.

I pray my boys and girls do not join the military as I have no guarantee that their lives won't be sacrificed so that some politician can win an election.

I cannot be proud of my country when debauchery is celebrated, dependence on the state is encouraged, sloth is treated as a sacrament, and those who have been the moral backbone of our nation for it's entire existence (God fearing Christians) are being called horrible names, and are being forced to do things against their faith.

How can I teach my children what a wonderful nation we live in? It is only wonderful in that all of it's former glory has not yet been stripped. I can teach them to love what our country was, what it should be. Truth be told I am very often too busy simply trying to teach them to discern light from dark, and hope that will be enough to guard them and guide them through the dark times ahead.

There are good people in this nation. Salt of the earth sort. The sort that make one say "if only." Our govt though, and the culture is a poison. Our political system so corrupted that at this point the law is whatever the person in charge says it is at that time, and no one stops them.

It breaks my heart to say all this. I wish I could and be all "yes sir". Sadly those times are past. Now we must be wise as serpents while we are innocent as doves.


edited to add...perhaps I am being too harsh. I live in VA and I can smell DC from here. Fairfax (a VA suburb of DC) sent a piece of that excrement here to Richmond it is stinking up the whole state. If I come across as harsh keep that in mind.

[Keith B]

It is from a bygone time. I know we should not say the former days are better than the latter because we do not speak with knowledge, but still. As much as I wish I could do as he suggests I cannot.

Instead of teaching my children about officer friendly I have to teach them that if they ever think a policeman is angry at them or that they are in trouble, they are to sit still, tell the LEO my name and ask for me or my husband and not say anything else, because police are permitted to lie to my children.

I pray my boys and girls do not join the military as I have no guarantee that their lives won't be sacrificed so that some politician can win an election.

I cannot be proud of my country when debauchery is celebrated, dependence on the state is encouraged, sloth is treated as a sacrament, and those who have been the moral backbone of our nation for it's entire existence (God fearing Christians) are being called horrible names, and are being forced to do things against their faith.

How can I teach my children what a wonderful nation we live in? It is only wonderful in that all of it's former glory has not yet been stripped. I can teach them to love what our country was, what it should be. Truth be told I am very often too busy simply trying to teach them to discern light from dark, and hope that will be enough to guard them and guide them through the dark times ahead.

There are good people in this nation. Salt of the earth sort. The sort that make one say "if only." Our govt though, and the culture is a poison. Our political system so corrupted that at this point the law is whatever the person in charge says it is at that time, and no one stops them.

It breaks my heart to say all this. I wish I could and be all "yes sir". Sadly those times are past. Now we must be wise as serpents while we are innocent as doves.


edited to add...perhaps I am being too harsh. I live in VA and I can smell DC from here. Fairfax (a VA suburb of DC) sent a piece of that excrement here to Richmond it is stinking up the whole state. If I come across as harsh keep that in mind.

While I understand that times are different, I don't believe you should teach your children as you are. This was filmed in a time when we were in a political war (Vietnam), but we stood behind our troops and the decisions made. We may not have liked them, but you must do it, all the while working to change the leadership that made those decisions. I lost a cousin in that war (police action), but still stood behind those fighting.

Same with police. Don't teach your kids that you can't talk to them, but teach them that the majority are good, but because of a few bad apples they need to be cautious of what they say. Again, we must work to change the mindset and work to get those bad apples out of the barrel.

We must teach our kids the morals and patriotism that once was so they see the issues that do (and really have always) existed in politics so that maybe they will not be sheep and vote for idiots like we have as leaders of our country today. Without them being shown the proper way, they will never know it exists and work to change it.

[TomsTXCHL]

FWIW having retired to TX 10 yrs ago after living in IL, MN, and WI and travelling all over the world, with the possible exception of Japan I believe TX children are the best-behaved and most respectful that I have ever met. Dunno if it's the Hard Life or the Country Life or the Independent Spirit or what, but congrats to any Texans here who may have raised some of these better younguns.

[texanjoker]

I teach my children to respect authority, do the right thing, be honest, have integrity and always remember their rights. My daughter is intent on joining the military this week and we can't be more proud of her.

If I were going to teach them to not trust a profession it sure wouldn't be the police.

[Oldgringo]

Methinks mamabearCali is packing cynicism way beyond her years. Granted, we may not be the country, or the people, we once were but we're still better than anyplace else I can think of.

A young engineer, once in my charge, made a lasting statement when he said, "...if everything stinks, you might ought to check your nose...". Well stated, Winston.

[jbarn]

I teach my children to respect authority, do the right thing, be honest, have integrity and always remember their rights. My daughter is intent on joining the military this week and we can't be more proud of her.

If I were going to teach them to not trust a profession it sure wouldn't be the police.

Agree 100%

[mamabearCali]

I do not dislike the soldier. I do not dislike the individual police officer.

I no longer trust our gov't, with good reason. I no longer trust the "police", with good reason. I did not grow up that way. I had my blind patriotism beat out of me by corruption and obvious usurpation of law by those in power. I had my propensity to give all LEO's the benefit of the doubt beat out of me by daily stories of LEO's acting in illegal and immoral ways. You cant get the bad apples out of the lot when the "good apples" protect them.


How does a terrified 10 year old tell the difference between a bad apple and a good guy. They can't. So I have to protect them in the only way I can. If you teach your kids to tell everything to a LEO, better hope nothing bad ever comes their way when they are over the age of ten.

I teach my children morals. I teach my children right from wrong. I teach what should be, but I cannot teach them a lie.

I teach my children to respect legitimate authority. I will not teach them to automatically give allegiance to whomever says they are in authority.

This isn't like Santa Claus. It isn't innocuous to teach your children to trust those who have proven to be false. If they think the world is as it was in 1960, they will be eaten alive.

No, I'd rather teach them that the world is broken. That our country is broken, and not as it should be, not as it could be. In order to fix it, or even to survive they must be wise and think carefully. Stand for what is right and expect the tomatoes (if not worse) to be thrown. Instead of teaching them to be grateful they live in a wonderland, I try to teach them to be strong, to be wise. That they are not guaranteed a wonderland, but instead must try to make the best decisions they can to heal our land.

Blind is not going to do the trick.

You teach your children as you see fit.

[mamabearCali]

Methinks mamabearCali is packing cynicism way beyond her years. Granted, we may not be the country, or the people, we once were but we're still better than anyplace else I can think of.

A young engineer, once in my charge, made a lasting statement when he said, "...if everything stinks, you might ought to check your nose...". Well stated, Winston.

Or perhaps I live closer to dump than you do. We are better than China and Russia, have more freedoms than Aussies and Brits, but that is not a soaring endorsement. Stage 2 cancer is better than stage 4, but it is still cancer.

I pray things get better. I hope for things to get better. My cynicism was not natural to me. I am naturally naive and trusting. It has been beaten into me these past 7 year by story after story of corrupt people getting away with murder.

With good men dying in Afghanistan, because they are not permitted to defend themselves against an attacker. With politicians who care nothing for the oaths they have taken. I have watched my father look for a job for 4 years. I watched him start with professional jobs he was well qualified for...now he is applying at Wal-mart and praying that he gets hired so they won't lose their house. Why...he is 61 and no one wants him. Thanks Obamacare (the reason he was let go in the first place).

So yeah I am cynical. I wasn't as much 6 years ago.

[RoyGBiv]

I do not dislike the soldier. I do not dislike the individual police officer.

I no longer trust our gov't, with good reason. I no longer trust the "police", with good reason. I did not grow up that way. I had my blind patriotism beat out of me by corruption and obvious usurpation of law by those in power. I had my propensity to give all LEO's the benefit of the doubt beat out of me by daily stories of LEO's acting in illegal and immoral ways. You cant get the bad apples out of the lot when the "good apples" protect them.


How does a terrified 10 year old tell the difference between a bad apple and a good guy. They can't. So I have to protect them in the only way I can. If you teach your kids to tell everything to a LEO, better hope nothing bad ever comes their way when they are over the age of ten.

I teach my children morals. I teach my children right from wrong. I teach what should be, but I cannot teach them a lie.

I teach my children to respect legitimate authority. I will not teach them to automatically give allegiance to whomever says they are in authority.

This isn't like Santa Claus. It isn't innocuous to teach your children to trust those who have proven to be false. If they think the world is as it was in 1960, they will be eaten alive.

No, I'd rather teach them that the world is broken. That our country is broken, and not as it should be, not as it could be. In order to fix it, or even to survive they must be wise and think carefully. Stand for what is right and expect the tomatoes (if not worse) to be thrown. Instead of teaching them to be grateful they live in a wonderland, I try to teach them to be strong, to be wise. That they are not guaranteed a wonderland, but instead must try to make the best decisions they can to heal our land.

Blind is not going to do the trick.

You teach your children as you see fit.

It's an incredibly fine line to teach young children to walk. Follow the rules, but be suspect of everything and everyone, lest you fall on the wrong side of some authority looking to make an example of you or enforce some arbitrary flypaper rule with the zeal of a murder attempt. You are not alone in walking that line.

I recall an instance where my child was involved in an altercation he did not start, tried to avoid, in fact. Out of fear of "being in trouble" he was overzealous in taking responsibility for what happened. When the facts were fully revealed he and I sat with the authority figure while he watched me give a lesson in right and wrong, enforcement of rules that punish victims for self defense and an admonishment that if the school expects my child to take a beating to avoid similar situations in the future, they should also expect to be subject to civil and criminal liability for their complicity that results in any injury to my child.

Then I spent weeks (in small doses) trying to explain to my young child how to walk that line. What it boiled down to is, "stay to the facts, not the feelings, and call me immediately". Unfortunately, that is the world we live in today.

[mamabearCali]

It's an incredibly fine line to teach young children to walk. Follow the rules, but be suspect of everything and everyone, lest you fall on the wrong side of some authority looking to make an example of you or enforce some arbitrary flypaper rule with the zeal of a murder attempt. You are not alone in walking that line.

I recall an instance where my child was involved in an altercation he did not start, tried to avoid, in fact. Out of fear of "being in trouble" he was overzealous in taking responsibility for what happened. When the facts were fully revealed he and I sat with the authority figure while he watched me give a lesson in right and wrong, enforcement of rules that punish victims for self defense and an admonishment that if the school expects my child to take a beating to avoid similar situations in the future, they should also expect to be subject to civil and criminal liability for their complicity that results in any injury to my child.

Then I spent weeks (in small doses) trying to explain to my young child how to walk that line. What it boiled down to is, "stay to the facts, not the feelings, and call me immediately". Unfortunately, that is the world we live in today.

It is a very fine line to walk and it hurts that I (and other parents) have to walk it. But I have become a realist and I think it is best to see the world as it is and not as I wish it to be.

[Keith B]

It's an incredibly fine line to teach young children to walk. Follow the rules, but be suspect of everything and everyone, lest you fall on the wrong side of some authority looking to make an example of you or enforce some arbitrary flypaper rule with the zeal of a murder attempt. You are not alone in walking that line.

I recall an instance where my child was involved in an altercation he did not start, tried to avoid, in fact. Out of fear of "being in trouble" he was overzealous in taking responsibility for what happened. When the facts were fully revealed he and I sat with the authority figure while he watched me give a lesson in right and wrong, enforcement of rules that punish victims for self defense and an admonishment that if the school expects my child to take a beating to avoid similar situations in the future, they should also expect to be subject to civil and criminal liability for their complicity that results in any injury to my child.

Then I spent weeks (in small doses) trying to explain to my young child how to walk that line. What it boiled down to is, "stay to the facts, not the feelings, and call me immediately". Unfortunately, that is the world we live in today.

Unfortunately we must sometimes still put our trust in fellow man and hope that they will do the right thing. Teaching a child that you can't trust police, that the military is not doing anything worthwhile, and other generalizations will unfortunately poison them into the belief that they are all bad. Passing on a critical belief as you have may be more damaging to them than building their trust of these things. Then, when they are older and able to understand how to break down the good and the bad, you introduce them to that world so they can try to sort out the diffrerence.
It is a very fine line to walk and it hurts that I (and other parents) have to walk it. But I have become a realist and I think it is best to see the world as it is and not as I wish it to be.

[RPBrown]

This, as Keith said, was filmed at a time when a very unpopular war was going on. When we came back we were spit on, called baby killers, and in a whole, shunned by a large part of out nation when all we did is what many thousands of troops have done for our country in the last 250 years. Following orders. Did I agree, no. Did I want to be there, NO. But I was and so were a lot of other men. Some of which gave the ultimate for this country.
With that, I still believe in our country. Yes, it has a lot wrong with it that is caused by those in Washington. But the only way it will change is to raise our kids with moral and ethical values so that some day they can take over the reigns and get those that are only in it for themselves out of office. That is what I have tried to do with my kids and now working on the grand kids.
The Duke had it right

[Topbuilder]

"No, I'd rather teach them that the world is broken. That our country is broken, and not as it should be, not as it could be. In order to fix it, or even to survive they must be wise and think carefully. Stand for what is right and expect the tomatoes (if not worse) to be thrown. Instead of teaching them to be grateful they live in a wonderland, I try to teach them to be strong, to be wise. That they are not guaranteed a wonderland, but instead must try to make the best decisions they can to heal our land. "

Well put. With regret I have to say

[mamabearCali]

"Teaching a child that you can't trust police, that the military is not doing anything worthwhile, and other generalizations will unfortunately poison them into the belief that they are all bad."


As opposed to teaching them that you can always trust the police and should always tell the police everything? That is hardly advisable. I do not teach them to hate the police or to be disrespectful, but if they think the police man is "mad" at them (the only way a 8 year old understands trouble) that they are to be quiet, still, and ask for me and my husband. Perhaps all you have is officer friendly where you live...that is great...but that is not the case in many places.

Not sure where you got that about the military. I think our military men are our best and brightest. I also think they are being set up for murder by the rules of engagement in Afghanistan and have routinely been sacrificed so that a politician can get points. Not ok by me. I hate politicians and distrust them entirely. I love our fighting men.

I don't trust and "hope" that people will do the right thing anymore. I know at least three people who have cooled their heels in jail because they "hoped" someone would do the right thing. Instead someone got a burr in their bonnet and chose to nail them to the wall because a law was clumsily worded and they could do so. Watching my friends get abused by the system and one of them lose their conceal carry permit because they transferred a gun from their glove box to their holster where a school bus could see it (not on school grounds) has made me jaded.

You live in TX, things are better still there the last time I was there (two years ago). Things are much worse elsewhere.