Zoning and site plans and stuff

[MotherBear]

Thought it'd be worth asking -- does anyone here know much about the whole site plan approval process? I've got a basic knowledge from my background in journalism and some prior experience, but I think I may be in over my head. There's a developer trying to build a large gas station on a small lot adjacent to my subdivision and we neighbors are hoping to at least force them to decrease the scale of the project so it doesn't have as much of a negative impact on the neighborhood. Our HOA's management company is suggesting we hire a consulting firm, but I'm skeptical about how much they could do relative to what we'd have to pay them. Anyone have enough know-how or experience to maybe be able to point me in the right direction on this? I can send more details including the site plan privately but would rather not be that specific about where I live on the public part of the forum.

[Keith B]

Thought it'd be worth asking -- does anyone here know much about the whole site plan approval process? I've got a basic knowledge from my background in journalism and some prior experience, but I think I may be in over my head. There's a developer trying to build a large gas station on a small lot adjacent to my subdivision and we neighbors are hoping to at least force them to decrease the scale of the project so it doesn't have as much of a negative impact on the neighborhood. Our HOA's management company is suggesting we hire a consulting firm, but I'm skeptical about how much they could do relative to what we'd have to pay them. Anyone have enough know-how or experience to maybe be able to point me in the right direction on this? I can send more details including the site plan privately but would rather not be that specific about where I live on the public part of the forum.

You should get a contingent of neighbors to contact your City Council rep. As an elected representative they should help you in working with the City P&Z Commission in working on reasonable accommodations in the facility to help with aesthetics, lighting, noise abatement, etc.

[MotherBear]

We did a door-to-door thing when the information first came out. The law here says people within 500' can be considered "interested parties." There are about 80 potential interested parties for the site in question; we have about 35 on an e-mail list who are interested and want to do something about it. We've contacted the city, but because we're in the extraterritorial jurisdiction they really don't care. This is considered an administrative site plan, which means there will never be a public meeting about it. We can express our concerns to the individual reviewers from the city on various issues, and that's it. Because we're in a jurisdictionally weird area, traffic concerns go to Travis County and TxDOT.

My past experience with this was while we lived in the City of Austin, and we neighbors went in a group to the Z&P meeting and voiced our objections. The commission told the developers to go back to the table with us and come back to the next meeting showing that they had made a reasonable attempt to accommodate us. The developers were great and we reached a compromise. We still didn't really want them there, but they did a lot to make it better and we felt like we could live with it. Then the economy tanked and the whole thing got scrapped, so that was as far as we ever went. I thought this would be similar, but so far I can't find anyone who cares because we're not in the city limits but the city is the entity doing most of the review. I'm going to try Travis County again today for the traffic issues (which are major) but I don't know how much they'll do for me.

I can make a hobby of making phone calls and complaining about this, and I'm perfectly willing to do so. But what I'm really wondering is, would a consulting firm as suggested by the HOA management company actually be able to do anything I can't? I don't speak the language and I'm not on a first-name basis with the folks at the city or the county or TxDOT. If it would make a difference, our HOA can look into shelling out the money. But if it's just a matter of being persistent, we can do that ourselves.

[philip964]

You did not say, but under your name it says "near Austin".

If it said "Austin" that would mean you had an entire local city government's help at your disposal to prevent growth.

If you are in an outlying town, no doubt they have as strict a set of rules. If you are in a county near Austin, no doubt they have as strict a set of rules.

Austin may also have jurisdiction even if it is not in their city limits.

I would go to the local planning office with the location of the gas station and find out where they are in the process. Many times multiple hearings before the planning commission are required before approval is given to the site plan. If there is a lot of neighborhood objection, showing up, signing up to speak. You can get a site plan approval postponed. Many times the submitter will look at all the people who have shown up and voluntarily remove the site plan just to make you come for nothing. Normally their is a limit to the number of times that can happen.

Most times a planning commission will not pass a site plan, if there is neighborhood opposition. If they do it is only if it meets every friggen requirement to the letter, and only when by law they have to. This could delay the site plan approval by six months or so. Sometimes there are sections of the code that are vague or require aesthetic judgement. This allows the planning commission to avoid passing a plan all together.

That's when negotiations take place. If you do this, we will remove our objections.

It takes time to research everything, but if you spend some time, you can prevent just about anything.

Council members are elected, so are mayors. They pay attention to people who vote.

[RPBrown]

As a former member of the Planning and Zoning Commission in Irving, I offer the following suggestions:
1) Get a petition signed by as many residents as possible. Make several copies. Submit them to the Development department with the zoning case number. This will get the petition on record.
2) Have as many people as you can get attend the P & Z hearing on the matter. Also have as many as you can get up and speak in opposition (the more the better). After the P & Z votes, it will send it to the council for a vote. Even a site plan change has to be voted on. Depending on the city charter, P & Z may have no choice in passing if it meets all of the SP requirements. Don't get discouraged at this point.
3) When the case is brought to the council, again, have as many people show up and speak in opposition. This is where a site plan can get shot down. If I am not mistaken, by state law it has to be given a public hearing. You just have to be vigilante in watching for a confirmed date and time.

[MotherBear]

We are near Austin, in Austin's ETJ, but they have no apparent desire or intent to annex us in the foreseeable future. Our mailing address and school district put us in an outlying town, but we're not within city limits there and neither is the property in question... nor does that town have any desire to annex us, according to a council member we chatted with a while ago.

Thinking through some of y'all's suggestions and making phone calls to follow up on things, I was able to determine that City of Austin is likely a dead end (since we're not actually in the city), but we have a shot with the Travis County Commissioner's Court. I spoke with our commissioner's admin and she outlined the steps we'll need to take. I guess I should have realized that, but all my previous experience is with city government. Our notification on the matter came from the City of Austin, so I assumed we needed to pursue it with them. Turns out they just have really strict notification requirements.

Thanks for the further insight into the process! I've only seen it from the outside and it can be intimidating. I'm feeling more optimistic that we can at least make some changes.

[jimlongley]

When the local super WalMart was in the planning stages, they stated that there were no houses within 1/2 miles of the proposed construction. Of course they really meant on the west side of 75, which was true enough at the time because all of the houses closer than that have been built since then, but since my house, and a biunch of others, on the east side of 75 are within 1/2 mile . . .

We did finally get the notices in the mail.

[2farnorth]

We have a Wal-Mart Express (gas, drug and convenience) trying to move in around the corner from my house. (About 350 feet away from my house) All we get from the city is that if they meet all the criteria in the zoning laws that there is nothing the city can do. Of course e-mails to WM corporate get nothing other than a canned response. They really couldn't care less. We are only 19 houses in an older little development. We really feel like we are swatting an elephant with a feather. The sale of the property closes this Friday.
City council meetings are nothing more than hand wringing sessions. Next election will get some changes (if anyone will run for the seats), but that will be too late.
We are a city of less than 2000 and already have 2 dollar stores, locally owned drug, grocery, and hardware stores, 2 gas and convenience stores. All are all ready competitively priced with stores in the nearby bigger cities.
This is the second developmental fight we've had in the in the 7 years we've lived here. We won the first one when it was proven that the "private prison" developer had lied on their permit applications and in statements to the council. That was one interesting council meeting.
Wish us luck. We do not want that Wal-Mart Express here!!!!

[rwg3]

Unfortunately most areas use "economic development" as the overriding criteria when examining new proposals. If they have a written zoning plan then that is the starting point. Become familiar with all the points that the permit application must address. Meet with the zoning officer and ask for a copy of the application and notify him that you as an affected party wish to be copied on all correspondence activity regarding the application. You may not be successful but you will have served notice that this will contested and they will proceed more carefully.
Generally in most of Texas you are facing an uphill battle and realistically the best you hope for is to try limit the impact of the development. Ask for things like planting of visual screens, ask what the storm water run-off plans are, ask what the pollution remediation plans might be especially water ground water protection might be in place. Given that you are caught in the never land of ETJ's, you are in a much weaker position. Follow the trail of where permit fees and taxes go to find the group who will be most affected by your issues and see if you can work with them to get your concerns addressed. As you know this is a political battle and there is much that can be done before you set up a public confrontation.
I suspect that the suggestion of a consultant, might be worth exploring further. I would ask the HOA why they suggested a consultant, who they would recommend , and what experience does the consultant have in the county where you are. It might be the consultant is politically connected in your locale and can offer input to the process without ruffling feathers.
Good Luck

[TomsTXCHL]

I spoke with our commissioner's admin and she outlined the steps we'll need to take.

It sounds like you found the right starting point then. When I read Post #1 I thought "County Commissioner" cuz even out here in little Blanco County that's who our contact would be for issues of this sort (I think we have four of them--yes one per precinct, all men). Your commissioner should be able to advise you what if anything can be done.

But probably your best bet is to make a "good neighbor" case with the developer.

Just as one example, there was a Stripes that went into little Blanco and installed lighting that lit-up the whole county. They did eventually install more sky-friendly lighting after working with the locals...

[Jim Beaux]

I gather that you are in an unincorporated rural area. If this is the case then in all probability there is little or no zoning ordinances. Check with your county zoning authority.

You are probably not going to find much satisfaction because :

1. There are probably limited grounds to halt this project.
2. This project represents new tax revenue.
3. The county commissioner and his staff are political and want to be re-elected. Unless there is a clear political advantage, they will avoid taking a strong position either way.
4. There is a probability that local money and influence is behind this project. (and that means political influence)

Been there and done that - I had a big industrial construction company build a new complex in my back yard. Every time I looked out of my patio door, I saw several yellow cranes, dozers, buses and big rigs 150 feet away.

Good luck