Trip to China

[RJGold]

I am being asked to make a business trip to China in the near future. I am really struggling as I do not want to go. I have a major issue traveling to a country where basic civil liberties are not honored.

I feel strongly enough about this that I am considering telling my boss I won't go.

Anyone else on the forum ever make or consider a decision like this? I'm interested in any feedback or repercussions you may have received.

[jmra]

I gave up a career partly because I was in a position where I had to threaten people with termination if they refused to travel to certain parts of the world. I decided it wasn't worth it anymore when one of my techs had to spend hours in the trunk of a car to get out of country.
Leaving that career was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I sleep much better at night now.
I don't recall China ever causing my techs issues. But I understand your concerns based on principals. For me the decision would be based on my ability to provide for my family if the stand ultimately meant I would need to seek other employment.

[WildBill]

RJGold -

I have never faced this situation, where I did not want to visit a particular country.

In fact, I would welcome the opportunity to travel to China.

Just because you visit doesn't mean you condone their government.

If you refused to travel for this reason, IMO there would be consequences for your future at your company.

Per jmra's post, safety and security issues are different matter.

Let your conscience be your guide.

Bill

[Vol Texan]

I am being asked to make a business trip to China in the near future. I am really struggling as I do not want to go. I have a major issue traveling to a country where basic civil liberties are not honored.

I feel strongly enough about this that I am considering telling my boss I won't go.

Anyone else on the forum ever make or consider a decision like this? I'm interested in any feedback or repercussions you may have received.

I'd go. I reserve those sorts of value judgments to personal trips, but not business trips. Work is work, and I'd hate to restrict my opportunity (and appear to be less valuable to my employer) because of a personal bias.

Understand, however, that I'm an international business travel road-warrior. I've been to a lot of great places, and I've been to a lot of 'not so great' places as well, including Nigeria, Bangladesh, Myanmar, China, etc.

Civil liberties are relative, and not everyone has the same value systems as we:

• Thailand is a great place; it is very safe, has extremely friendly people, and so many wonderful sights to be seen. The people are very industrious, and there seems to be a LOT of freedom - but utter just one word against their king, and you'll find yourself in prison.
• Singapore is perhaps the safest place on earth. I lived there, and never once felt concern about my wife and/or daughter walking around the city alone. They have no tolerance for crime there - had my wife been attacked, the perpetrator would have had a VERY bad time in prison. Murderers, rapists, and even drug offenders have a zero recidivism rate, because they are all killed by the state. But their media is very controlled by the state, and the freedom of speech is quite well regulated. (All that being said, if I were to chose a second favorite place in the world to live other than here in Texas, it would be Singapore!)

So, restricting my business travel based on civil liberties of the host country is a mosaic of complications that I choose not to worry about. As one senior member on here says: Lo que no puede cambiar, tu que debe aguantar.

Now, if SAFETY was a concern, then I'd abstain right away. I don't go to the Niger Delta, I won't go to Iraq or Afghanistan (perhaps Kurdistan, but maybe not anymore now that ISIS is more active), and other places are on my personal 'no fly' list.

I do suggest you read this post before going...good advice from a bunch of seasoned international travelers (the link takes you to my input).

Where in China are you being asked to go? I'd bet there are a number of us on here who could give some fantastic sightseeing suggestions to you!

[jmra]

Thinking more about the OP, in my current stage of life and the options available to me along with the fact that mechanical failures aren't the only thing you have to worry about on airplanes, the flight alone would probably make me turn down the trip.
Of course I used to fly weekly - in the last decade I can count on one hand how many times I've flown.

[oohrah]

I've traveled to China extensively over the last five years. It was an enjoyable experience. The Chinese people are wonderful, friendly people and just as capitalistic as we are. Yes, the govt is autocratic, but I rarely ever saw police, and never saw the presence of any military. Last time I was there, 45 years ago, it was Mao jackets and bicycles. Today, it is Lexus, Buick and upscale. They have malls that would put ours to sham, and the public transportation is efficient and easy to figure out. The language barrier is not much of an issue, especally for business, and if you stay in a western catering hotel. Only thig you shoudn't do is ask questions about things the govt thinks would put it in a bad light, like pollution, religion, etc.

I think you'd be missing a great experience by not going. If you do decide, you can PM me for soem travel tips.

[oohrah]

Couple other thoughts:

Safety - single women can walk the streets at night without fear.

I went to a Christian church regularly in Shanghai.

I was never searched entering or leaving the country. If you're there on business or siteseeing, you walk right through.

I climbed the Great Wall.

The food is real Chinese, not the stuff we think it is, and it is great.

[anygunanywhere]

At this point in world affairs I would feel safer traveling to China on bidness than Mexico. I barely escaped being kidnapped while working in Deep South Mexico back in 2007ish. I agree with the personal vs bidness travel opinion.

I had always told my boss I would never travel to China. My main objection was not so much political as it was the time from home and the horrible air pollution in the industrial areas where I would have been workng. Well, that and the food. I hate Chinese food. Long story.

[suthdj]

I am being asked to make a business trip to China in the near future. I am really struggling as I do not want to go. I have a major issue traveling to a country where basic civil liberties are not honored.

I feel strongly enough about this that I am considering telling my boss I won't go.

Anyone else on the forum ever make or consider a decision like this? I'm interested in any feedback or repercussions you may have received.

Maybe you should go there and judge for yourself. My wife is from China and thinks many of our laws here are overly restrictive. you need to look at their life from their eyes not the churches and governments opinion here they say bad stuff just to get your money. Go there with an open mind and you will see many happy capitalists as well as many poor and yes there are places you don't go at night also.
When I was trying to bring my wife to the US it took almost 2 yrs (thanks 9/11) my mother in all her misconception said I should contact the U.S. Gov't to see if they could get the Chinese to move faster. She was muted when I told her it wasn't the Chinese Gov't taking so long it was U.S.

[RJGold]

Thanks for all the good comments. I appreciate everyone's very open responses.

Please understand I'm not at all against the Chinese people nor do I believe me not going will make any political difference. I'm just struggling with the trip.

I do appreciate all of the responses.

[RoyGBiv]

China is a GREAT place to visit.
The people are more entrepreneurial than you would ever imagine, it's the government that's a downer.
The food is awesome, varied,and nothing like you get in America.

If you've never been, then all you know is second hand.
Yes, there's plenty not to like about communism, but turning down the opportunity to visit doesn't teach you anything more than you already think you know.

If you decide to go, I'd be happy to answer your how-to's if I'm able.

[biggyin]

I went on a ship to Hong Kong before and after the hand over, was on the first British military ship back to Chinese Hong Kong. I have also been to Shanghai. Thoroughly enjoyed both visits. Main thing to remember is that is not your culture and it is very different from it. It will never be yours and is far older and more established that most things of European descent. Go and experience at least once and then make up your mind. Government and people are two (sadly) very different things.

[WildBill]

Government and people are two (sadly) very different things.

That is one thing that I noticed on my trips to different countries.
I never had an issue with any of the people due to the policies of their government, and they never had an issue with me because US policies.
Many people I met were very curious about living in the US and asked questions to see if what they had read or heard about the US was true.
Many times they doubted that what they heard was true. I felt good that I could give them my first hand observations.

I happened to be in Hong Kong when the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed.
For days, the same film clip was showed ad nauseam on CNN.
When I got to Malaysia I was working with a Japanese guy who I knew fairly well.
His comment about the bombing was "it must be very easy to buy a bomb in the US."
I explained that you can't go to a hardware store and buy a bomb.
This is the same type of "news reporting" that leads people to think that there is blood running in the streets in the US.

[Abraham]

An acquaintance goes there all the time and comes back with stories of how much he likes it.

He's traveled all over the country too.

He's considering moving there permanently, if allowed.