Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[fickman]

Why do Christian motorcycle club members dress like outlaw bikers?

There's something deeply wrong with that...

And, no, I don't buy for one second that to evangelize to these bikers one must appear to be like them to gain access to their cancerous souls.

Baloney!

If that's to me, I never said the Christians would need to dress and act like outlaws; I said I can see a reason why they might need to go where the bikers are.

[The Annoyed Man]

I haven't seen not one person here say they were ok with the extortion. Only explanation of what has been going on. The hole reason the shooting happened is because the Cossacks felt they no longer should have to answer to another club. That's why they stopped paying dues and decided they would rock the Texas rocker.

Also. I don't believe the Christian group pays anything to anyone or answers to anyone. They were at the meeting for the reason the meeting is held. Motorcycle legislation and safety.

The reason who has what colors is an issue to them is I am sure they don't want to be mistaken for an owtlaw (or any other) club due to colors being too similar.

There are actually several benefit thy clubs that are not required to pay dues. The Christian group.... B.A.C.A. Which means BIKER AGAINST CHILD ABUSE. And yes...they still look like bikers but that doesn't mean they are outlaws.

I don't really care what people look like. I'm not your average looking guy either. But it shouldn't matter what any particular club's organizing principles (outlaw bikers, Christian bikers, BACA, or sober bikers, or whatever bikers), or who has to pay the Banditos and who doesn't. As far as I am concerned, the Bandito's authority to require payment for wearing the Texas rocker begins AND ENDS with members of the Banditos. Period, and without exception. They have no rights or authority in determining what ANYBODY, regardless of creed, wears on their colors, unless that person is a dues paying member of the Banditos. If they had observed this principle, the shootout would not have happened. They showed up at Twin Peaks prepared to exterminate anyone who objected to their crass and hamfisted attempts at enforcement.

They are vermin.

(EDITED TO CORRECT A PUNCTUATION ERROR....)

[KD5NRH]

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

Same reason furries don't really want to be trapped and relocated to wilderness areas or shot for dinner.

Not sure what the actual reason is, but the parallel is clear.

[mojo84]

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

Same reason furries don't really want to be trapped and relocated to wilderness areas or shot for dinner.

Not sure what the actual reason is, but the parallel is clear.

Absurd

[ScooterSissy]

The OMG's shouldn't have any claim or right to dictate what other people put on their jackets as long as their trademarks or copyrights aren't infringed upon. Extortion is extortion whether they are extorting money from other OMG's or anyone else. I find it pretty interesting how we have supposedly law abiding CGL's condoning and justifying crimes such as extortion and assault because someone wears a certain color or the word "Texas" on their jacket or vest.

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

I want to make clear, I'm not justifying anything (except my own actions); just explaining what's going on.

But now you've confused me. Earlier you made it pretty clear that you felt the Cossacks were part of what was wrong. Now it sounds as if you're saying what they did should have been OK, since they were just exercising their rights...

[RPBrown]

Why do Christian motorcycle club members dress like outlaw bikers?

There's something deeply wrong with that...

And, no, I don't buy for one second that to evangelize to these bikers one must appear to be like them to gain access to their cancerous souls.

Baloney!

I will give you my reasons for wearing a vest while riding:
(1) Its a place to conceal my EDC
(2) The vest is some protection if you go down. In fact it has kept road rash to a minimum on me on one occasion.
(3) It also offers some protection from the elements on cooler days
(4) It makes it easier to be accepted by the bikers that you are to minister to.
(5) I have found that it is also easier to be accepted by prisoners when doing prison ministry.
(6) I like wearing a vest

[mojo84]

The OMG's shouldn't have any claim or right to dictate what other people put on their jackets as long as their trademarks or copyrights aren't infringed upon. Extortion is extortion whether they are extorting money from other OMG's or anyone else. I find it pretty interesting how we have supposedly law abiding CGL's condoning and justifying crimes such as extortion and assault because someone wears a certain color or the word "Texas" on their jacket or vest.

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

I want to make clear, I'm not justifying anything (except my own actions); just explaining what's going on.

But now you've confused me. Earlier you made it pretty clear that you felt the Cossacks were part of what was wrong. Now it sounds as if you're saying what they did should have been OK, since they were just exercising their rights...

You are twisting what I am saying. One doesn't have to be right just because the other is in the wrong. They are both thug organizations. The Cossacks just don't openly own up to it like the Bandidos do.

Extortion is extortion regardless whether they are extorting other criminal thugs or yuppie bikers that like to ride on weekends. No one, not even criminals should have to pay someone else for what they wear. Is that clear?

[ScooterSissy]

The OMG's shouldn't have any claim or right to dictate what other people put on their jackets as long as their trademarks or copyrights aren't infringed upon. Extortion is extortion whether they are extorting money from other OMG's or anyone else. I find it pretty interesting how we have supposedly law abiding CGL's condoning and justifying crimes such as extortion and assault because someone wears a certain color or the word "Texas" on their jacket or vest.

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

I want to make clear, I'm not justifying anything (except my own actions); just explaining what's going on.

But now you've confused me. Earlier you made it pretty clear that you felt the Cossacks were part of what was wrong. Now it sounds as if you're saying what they did should have been OK, since they were just exercising their rights...

You are twisting what I am saying. One doesn't have to be right just because the other is in the wrong. They are both thug organizations. The Cossacks just don't openly own up to it like the Bandidos do.

Extortion is extortion regardless whether they are extorting other criminal thugs or yuppie bikers that like to ride on weekends. No one, not even criminals should have to pay someone else for what they wear. Is that clear?

So, your view is that, in this instance, though the Cossacks are thugs, they were wronged for simply standing up for their right to wear what they want where they want. Is that the bottom line, sans "twisting"?

I've also said, repeatedly, that no RCs (Riding Clubs) that I'm aware of, pays dues to any MC to wear colors. Are you aware of some that do? Who is involved? I'd really like to know if that's happening, because I've been doing this a long time, and have never heard of any "yuppie bikers" paying such dues.

[mojo84]

The OMG's shouldn't have any claim or right to dictate what other people put on their jackets as long as their trademarks or copyrights aren't infringed upon. Extortion is extortion whether they are extorting money from other OMG's or anyone else. I find it pretty interesting how we have supposedly law abiding CGL's condoning and justifying crimes such as extortion and assault because someone wears a certain color or the word "Texas" on their jacket or vest.

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

I want to make clear, I'm not justifying anything (except my own actions); just explaining what's going on.

But now you've confused me. Earlier you made it pretty clear that you felt the Cossacks were part of what was wrong. Now it sounds as if you're saying what they did should have been OK, since they were just exercising their rights...

You are twisting what I am saying. One doesn't have to be right just because the other is in the wrong. They are both thug organizations. The Cossacks just don't openly own up to it like the Bandidos do.

Extortion is extortion regardless whether they are extorting other criminal thugs or yuppie bikers that like to ride on weekends. No one, not even criminals should have to pay someone else for what they wear. Is that clear?

So, your view is that, in this instance, though the Cossacks are thugs, they were wronged for simply standing up for their right to wear what they want where they want. Is that the bottom line, sans "twisting"?

I've also said, repeatedly, that no RCs (Riding Clubs) that I'm aware of, pays dues to any MC to wear colors. Are you aware of some that do? Who is involved? I'd really like to know if that's happening, because I've been doing this a long time, and have never heard of any "yuppie bikers" paying such dues.

Come on now. It's not that hard. Just because they were right in not wanting to pay to wear something doesn't mean they aren't criminal thugs and doesn't mean they should have shown up where they knew it was going to cause a confrontation.

No I do not know of any. Do you know of any yuppie biker riding clubs that wears a territorial rocker or a logo similar in design or color to the Bandidos without getting harassed about it?

Quit playing games. It not that dang hard to understand.

[mojo84]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This information is to educate you on the outlaw 1%er lifestyle, not to scare you away from riding. (And remember, please think before you respond to anything, don't do any bashing of anyone or any club on the e groups, forums or at any bars.) First off, the likelihood of anyone getting into a scrape with outlaws/1%er”s is slim to none unless you frequent their bars or hangouts. But make no mistake, this is very real. Since most bike clubs are “NOT” outlaw clubs, they will have no issue with you as long as you stay out of their “business” and follow biker protocol. There is rarely a problem at a public event or poker run but it is always possible. So lets start with the "Rocker" you hear about. The rocker is in the form of a half moon, for lack of a better term. Similar to the bottom of a rocking chair. If you think about it, you have all seen photos of "Hells Angels" and the way the patches are arched above and below the center patch. MC (Motorcycle Club) patch and the 1% diamond will also be found on their Cut (also referred to as Colors). There are also many other patches some clubs wear that only mean something to that particular club.

The 1% diamond is the key to identifying a 1%er. It is a patch in the shape of a diamond with “1%” on it. That is mostly worn on the left shoulder but is seen on the back of their colors also. They, (1%er's) ride mostly Harley’s only, along with their support clubs and almost all outlaw clubs, but that's another story. Flying a certain style of patch on the back of colors is how the outlaws identify who is or is not claiming territory. Territory is a huge issue and they will fight and/or kill over it if it comes to that. It’s just “Business”. The rocker or the bar style patch is not acceptable to 1%er's unless approved by them. And just because an M/C club wears “Rocker” or “Bar” style patch’s that doesn’t make them an outlaw club. You just have to learn who is who but your officers should have some knowledge on that.

As I said, most clubs are not outlaw clubs and don’t wear a top and bottom rocker. They may have a top rocker but if they have a bottom patch it will not have State, City or County wording on it , many times it will be the member’s road name. For example any club in Texas (unless it’s grand fathered by the Bandido’s) that’s not affiliated with Bandidos, (and other than a police club) are not allowed to fly the "Texas" patch ("Bar" or "Rocker") on the back. They have even forced some police clubs to remove the Texas rocker. Also, 99% of Bandido support clubs cannot wear Texas on the back. The Bandidos claim that right as an MC (Motorcycle Club) and will aggressively approach you if you are seen wearing it on the back of your colors. Most states have its dominant 1% club where the same rule applies. The Bandidos are the dominant club in Texas as well as several other states.

[philip964]

Why do Christian motorcycle club members dress like outlaw bikers?

There's something deeply wrong with that...

And, no, I don't buy for one second that to evangelize to these bikers one must appear to be like them to gain access to their cancerous souls.

Baloney!

I will give you my reasons for wearing a vest while riding:

(2) The vest is some protection if you go down. In fact it has kept road rash to a minimum on me on one occasion.

Please wear full leather especially leather gloves while riding. Do it, not for you, but for me. Sometimes as part of my job, I have to look at photos. I cannot unsee the photos of a hand that was not wearing a leather glove while riding.

[ScooterSissy]

....
Come on now. It's not that hard. Just because they were right in not wanting to pay to wear something doesn't mean they aren't criminal thugs and doesn't mean they should have shown up where they knew it was going to cause a confrontation.

Huh???? Why should they have not shown up? Isn't that the case you (among a few others) have been making, that they are free to go where they want, and wear what they want? Does the thug accusation take away their rights to go where they want, and wear what they want? Who decides these things, outside of the judges and juries of course?

No I do not know of any. Do you know of any yuppie biker riding clubs that wears a territorial rocker or a logo similar in design or color to the Bandidos without getting harassed about it?

Nor do I, which is my point. No MC gangs are extorting non-MC gangs, at least none that I know of.

Quit playing games. It not that dang hard to understand.

Not "playing games", just pointing out you can't have it both ways. Either those that play in that sandbox should understand the rules and play by them (which seems to be your point), or everyone is free to do what they want within the law.

[ScooterSissy]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've understood that quite well, thank you. That's much what I've been saying here.

[mojo84]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've understood that quite well, thank you. That's much what I've been saying here.

It's apparent you don't understand as much as you seem to think.

Just because someone has a right to do it doesn't mean it is wise. The Cossacks showed up knowing it was going to cause a confrontation. If they were the fine decent upstanding gents you seem to want to make them out to be, they would have contacted the other fine gents, Bandidos, and met them out in the middle of nowhere to settle their differences. Instead, they showed up where they knew it would spark a confrontation. I'm saying neither party is right. They are just wrong in different ways.

I'm done playing your game. Go put on your vest with patch and territory rocker and ride your scooter to some of the known biker bars and let us know how it works out. Until then, I'm done with you as you are just instigating.

[Keith B]

Alright folks, this is getting to the personal attack level. Stop now or this will be locked.