Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
I wondered about that too.....everything I've ever heard indicates marijuana does not produce aggression, but a dull mellow response. Unless they've got some evidence that ties marijuana use in some individuals to aggressive behavior or shows aggression in combination with some other drug in his system, it would seem to undermine the theory of Martin as aggressor. I'm guessing the intent is to corroborate Z's phone remark that Martin looked like he was on drugs, and maybe just make the inference that drug user = bad person.
In general, after using marijuana a person experiences a sedating effect, which makes the drug less likely to cause violence in users than other substances such as alcohol and stimulants (e.g., amphetamines and cocaine).
However, sometimes when marijuana is used it can cause fear, anxiety, panic or paranoia, which can result in an aggressive outburst. For most people, however, once the effects of the drug wear off, their behaviour gradually improves.
The toxicology report shows low level of THC indicating use 6 hours or so prior. A regular pot smoker who had not had a hit in 6 hours "might" be a little uptight.
NRA/LTC Instructor
NRA Patriot Life- Endowment Member
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Opinions expressed are subject to change without notice.
NRA TSRA TFC CHL: 9/22/12, PSC Member: 10/2012
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Also known as "illy". See how I outstreeted you there? :)
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Also known as "illy". See how I outstreeted you there? :)
Where did they say it was laced with something? I missed that if they did. Even those I have encountered with MJ dipped in PCP, ect have been mellow... I can see them trying to argue he wasn't thinking and maybe they have some background they will try to get in showing he is confrontational. 6 hours later? He isn't going to be showing much symptoms if any and most likely wouldn't even be arrestable for being under the influence or PI, depending on the specific state statute as he would need to be unable to care for his safety or the safety of others, and I just don't' see marijuana doing that 6 hours later. Now the synthetics can make people act bizzare, but he had the real stuff in his system. My opinion comes from dealing with people smoking dope over 2 decades while doing le work. Sure they will find some expert to counter that and then the pros will for the other side.
cb1000rider wrote:What a waste of taxpayer dollars. Without being there, no one except for Zimmerman is ever going to know what really happened.
Beyond that, where are the grounds for prosecuting this case? The PD declined. The local DA declined... It went viral in the news and we suddenly get a special prosecutor involved?
IMHO, this was a needless avoidable death. However, trying to put Zimmerman in for murder is a big overreach...
One news channel said the lead detective wanted to file manslaughter charges at the time but was over ruled. That was the first time I heard that.
Regarding all the voice analyst threads I don't buy this conspiracy stuff. If they had identified a voice they would have testified to that effect. The expert is not going to lie on the stand over this small time case. This is the real world and not CSI where they can do amazing things.
He testified under oath that they had no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's account, and that he was being pressured from outside. He agreed to file manslaughter charges but balked on the 2nd degree murder charge and was demoted as a result.
Ok that makes much better sense. I know about getting pressure from above.
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
I wondered about that too.....everything I've ever heard indicates marijuana does not produce aggression, but a dull mellow response. Unless they've got some evidence that ties marijuana use in some individuals to aggressive behavior or shows aggression in combination with some other drug in his system, it would seem to undermine the theory of Martin as aggressor. I'm guessing the intent is to corroborate Z's phone remark that Martin looked like he was on drugs, and maybe just make the inference that drug user = bad person.
It could have:
- Made him act suspiciously
- Made him paranoid, which could have enhanced the suspicious behavior
- Clouded his judgment (fight / no fight)
I don't think you have to prove it made him aggressive. We know (the jury doesn't) that he was already an aggressive person. Take an aggressive person and cloud their judgment, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Or, the prosecution can counter that TM was so used to regular marijuana use that such a small amount wouldn't have impaired him. That'll be great for the jury to hear.
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Also known as "illy". See how I outstreeted you there? :)
Where did they say it was laced with something? I missed that if they did. Even those I have encountered with MJ dipped in PCP, ect have been mellow... I can see them trying to argue he wasn't thinking and maybe they have some background they will try to get in showing he is confrontational. 6 hours later? He isn't going to be showing much symptoms if any and most likely wouldn't even be arrestable for being under the influence or PI, depending on the specific state statute as he would need to be unable to care for his safety or the safety of others, and I just don't' see marijuana doing that 6 hours later. Now the synthetics can make people act bizzare, but he had the real stuff in his system. My opinion comes from dealing with people smoking dope over 2 decades while doing le work. Sure they will find some expert to counter that and then the pros will for the other side.
I'm hearing that 9 states, including NY and Kentucky (still looking for a source), have passed laws that any THC positive test can nail an individual on DUI charges. This is alarming being that a person can test THC positive for up to 45 days after ingesting. Feds, state, and locals are doing everything they can to get more people caught up in the "justice" system.
The drugs also support GZ's story that he noticed TM because of suspicious behavior, instead of the prosecution (and Crunk) theory that GZ profiled him because he was able to see that TM was African American rather than a dark skinned Cuban or Dominican. On a rainy night.
Last edited by Right2Carry on Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Also known as "illy". See how I outstreeted you there? :)
Where did they say it was laced with something? I missed that if they did. Even those I have encountered with MJ dipped in PCP, ect have been mellow... I can see them trying to argue he wasn't thinking and maybe they have some background they will try to get in showing he is confrontational. 6 hours later? He isn't going to be showing much symptoms if any and most likely wouldn't even be arrestable for being under the influence or PI, depending on the specific state statute as he would need to be unable to care for his safety or the safety of others, and I just don't' see marijuana doing that 6 hours later. Now the synthetics can make people act bizzare, but he had the real stuff in his system. My opinion comes from dealing with people smoking dope over 2 decades while doing le work. Sure they will find some expert to counter that and then the pros will for the other side.
I'm hearing that 9 states, including NY and Kentucky (still looking for a source), have passed laws that any THC positive test can nail an individual on DUI charges. This is alarming being that a person can test THC positive for up to 45 days after ingesting. Feds, state, and locals are doing everything they can to get more people caught up in the "justice" system.
I don't' know about all that, but I do know working 2 states as a LEO that you can be dwi/dui (depending on state) while being under the influence of mj. You would have to be impaired to the point that your driving was effected. There is no "level", but you would need a positive test for conviction, and we would request a urine sample. If a refusal then blood. Most people smoking a joint are not at that level. The LEO would need a chemical test taken that day just like a alcohol related arrest. True it may be in your system longer, although in reality on a chemical test it is out of the system rather quickly. A hair follicle may show it at a later time, but if you were tested even 2 days later, it would be a defense that you smoked MJ since that incident and be hard to prove after the fact. When I worked the beach you dealt with MJ users everyday. I'll take those peaceful subjects vs. the bad drunks anyday
Now for the important topic of the day: Where is the hot blond that was sitting behind Zimmerman?
Frankie wrote:Did the witness on the stand really just give a "shout out" to the city of San Antonio?
Boring day so far. I would love to see that animation they were talking about. I personally wonder about this marijuana usage. Sure they should bring it up, but after encountering hundreds if not 1000's of people under the influence of marijuana, I have never encountered a hostile or aggressive one. That could play bad for the defense depending on who the prosecution brings on to counter this. I also wonder if they will bring that awful ME back on the stand who had the new opinion that it could have effected Martin?
Marijuana on it's own has a mellowing effect. But marijuana combined with formaldehyde (aka "wet") can produce a fairly aggressive behavior, especially in a provoked/confrontational situation.
Also known as "illy". See how I outstreeted you there? :)
Where did they say it was laced with something? I missed that if they did. Even those I have encountered with MJ dipped in PCP, ect have been mellow... I can see them trying to argue he wasn't thinking and maybe they have some background they will try to get in showing he is confrontational. 6 hours later? He isn't going to be showing much symptoms if any and most likely wouldn't even be arrestable for being under the influence or PI, depending on the specific state statute as he would need to be unable to care for his safety or the safety of others, and I just don't' see marijuana doing that 6 hours later. Now the synthetics can make people act bizzare, but he had the real stuff in his system. My opinion comes from dealing with people smoking dope over 2 decades while doing le work. Sure they will find some expert to counter that and then the pros will for the other side.
I haven't seen any reports about marijuana laced with anything or really even a decent summation of the coroner toxicology report. I was simply addressing your question about weed & aggression. Weed on its own produces a calming effect similar to alcohol (although there are those in whom alcohol brings out a mean streak). But the opposite can happen when other things are added to the mix.
I won't get too detailed with my experience, but I did see a guy throw his good friend out of a second story window because they lost an early point in a Foosball game after smoking wet/illy all afternoon.
Opinions expressed are subject to change without notice.
NRA TSRA TFC CHL: 9/22/12, PSC Member: 10/2012
fickman wrote:This expert witness (forensic pathologist) is straight from a Law and Order episode.
In fact, several witnesses in this trial have been caricatures (not just characters).
Compelling.
He is very good and can articulate himself well. Are you talking Law and Order, Crime and Punishment or the dramas... The C&P was filmed in real courts in San Diego.
