PC vs. Mac

[E2P989]

I have noticed that a lot of folks say a Mac is okay because it can be set up to boot as either a PC or a Mac? So a Mac is okay because it can act like a PC and it only costs three times as much to be able to get around to being a PC.

Hmmmmmm

I think I'll keep the PC for 1/3 the price and not have to go through the transformation from Mac to PC.

Bye again!

Chas.

Some folks accept change better than others. For those of you that hate Mac, stop using products that have done everything possible to copy the Mac platform. (Windows, Android, tablets)

Guess who MAC copied the mouse from? Windows.

[C-dub]

Calm down everyone. While my thread title may have been poorly thought out it looks like it was a little prophetic. Sorry again Charles.

I've always been curious about Macs, but was so much a PC person that I never took the initiative to learn about them. I was concerned over the compatibility with MS Office products because even if I do go Mac my employer will not and I do quite a bit of work from home. I don't mess around under the hood of these things any more.

I've had my current laptop for over 6 years and haven't had any trouble. It's a 17" Toshiba Satellite running Vista. Nothing special and has been solid for me. My wife's is the same laptop, but 15". She has had several problems with hers. She always got mad at me when any of our other PCs broke down or had problems because I always asked her what she did. Well, for the last 6 years we've each had our own and her's has been in the shop every other year, while mine hasn't had one problem. We are running the same software. I don't know what she does do it.

[Syntyr]

If you compare oranges to oranges, $3,000 worth of high end PC hardware will last as long as an Apple. Comparing a $500 desktop to a $3,000 Apple is unfair. Most anecdotes I've heard from friends and family are doing this.

Also, I've had the opposite experience with software. I have two Apples from '06 that are essentially worthless because the software is no longer supported. Yet, I'm still using a well-functioning PC from 2002 that is running Windows XP and hasn't skipped a beat. BTW, that PC has never had a virus or a blue screen, either. Apple also charges mightily for feature upgrades to the OS. . . on devices and computers.

No thanks.

I currently administer networks for a company with 6000 desktops. We also currently run 1400+ servers (we have a high security and retail exposure so we have LOTS of redundancy) I have 8 Compaq DL380's running Windows 2000 that have not been turned off since they were purchased in 2001. We don't have anything critical on those boxes because they are not fault tolerant but they are still running. The LARGE majority of the company is still running boxes about 4 years old on Windows XP. We have some Windows 7 boxes. If you buy higher end hardware and maintain them right they just keep running.

Also we have a lot of database work, both Access and SQL Server. Yes I can run those in Parallels but the performance hit is too much. Also why would I go buy a Mac with OSX and Parallels or Bootcamp and a copy of Windows. Why not just buy a PC with Windows and cut out the expensive middle man.

Then you bring Internet Explorer. IE is the default browser of business. We access so many applications and portals using the web browser and we are a retail establishment and most of our customers use IE so we use IE.

Then you have to factor in items like our screen scraping and voice recording technology for the call center, High Speed High Volume printing and scanning because our Ocee and Xerox IGen4 document production facilities are all PC run.

At home I have a self built PC running Windows Vista since 2008 with nary a problem. Runs all the time. Right now I have several spreadsheets open, more then a few browser sessions, a game of Call of Duty Modern Warfare, a game of Mini Ninjas and probably my Tivo video app running. It is a Intel Q6600 Core 2 Quad with 4 gig of ram and a Geforce 8800 GTX video card. So no ultra crazy specs. Cost me about $1200 to put together in 2008. I will probably upgrade the video card this year sometime but the rest of the box is rock solid. It's still snappy in performance. Takes 23 seconds from the time I push the power button until I have a desktop.

My wife looked at replacing her PC with a Mac because she likes the Mac. I do too its visually very appealing. Also she runs Adobe CS4 and does creative stuff but in order to replace all of her software was going to cost about 8000 AFTER we had purchased a new Mac...

PC for me...

[E2P989]

Calm down everyone. While my thread title may have been poorly thought out it looks like it was a little prophetic. Sorry again Charles.

I've always been curious about Macs, but was so much a PC person that I never took the initiative to learn about them. I was concerned over the compatibility with MS Office products because even if I do go Mac my employer will not and I do quite a bit of work from home. I don't mess around under the hood of these things any more.

I've had my current laptop for over 6 years and haven't had any trouble. It's a 17" Toshiba Satellite running Vista. Nothing special and has been solid for me. My wife's is the same laptop, but 15". She has had several problems with hers. She always got mad at me when any of our other PCs broke down or had problems because I always asked her what she did. Well, for the last 6 years we've each had our own and her's has been in the shop every other year, while mine hasn't had one problem. We are running the same software. I don't know what she does do it.

You might want to look into Windows SteadyState. While it was recently discontinued, you should still be able tO find the installer for it. It supports XP and Vista. Once your wife's computer is at a good, working point, you can "freeze" it so that any changes she makes will be gone at restart. That means she'll have to save files on an external hard drive, or create a second partition to save files on. If you have to use the desktop, my documents, or application settings directory, you can remap those in the registry to the other partition or hard drive.

[Syntyr]

...except that Apple doesn't hate you, and you don't suck.

Yeah but with HK you can be a Manly Tuetonic Operator!!!

and i like HK even if they don't like me!

[E2P989]

At home I have a self built PC running Windows Vista since 2008 with nary a problem. Runs all the time. Right now I have several spreadsheets open, more then a few browser sessions, a game of Call of Duty Modern Warfare, a game of Mini Ninjas and probably my Tivo video app running. It is a Intel Q6600 Core 2 Quad with 4 gig of ram and a Geforce 8800 GTX video card. So no ultra crazy specs. Cost me about $1200 to put together in 2008. I will probably upgrade the video card this year sometime but the rest of the box is rock solid. It's still snappy in performance. Takes 23 seconds from the time I push the power button until I have a desktop.

My 8 year old desktop takes 26 seconds from me pushing the power button and having Photoshop CS3 fully open.

I have good hardware which I've maintained, but a lot of it is software too. People can greatly increase their boot up times by disabling services they never use and background programs that load at start up which is supposeded to make other things load faster, but if you never use those things, you don't need them.

The iTunes installer comes with a lot of extra add-ons, but a majority of people don't need them. The packages for each part can be extracted from the installer and installed separately. MAC users complain of "bloat" on Windows computers, but I find it ironic that Apple is a cause of some of that bloat.

[lrpettit]

The LARGE majority of the company is still running boxes about 4 years old on Windows XP.

So now that security support for Windows XP is going away you'll be upgrading all of those users to Windows 8? What an awesome project!

Also why would I go buy a Mac with OSX and Parallels or Bootcamp and a copy of Windows. Why not just buy a PC with Windows and cut out the expensive middle man.

I run a MACBookPro with Fusion because I need to be able to develop/program applications for both environments (PC and MAC). So your answer is, you wouldn't unless you have a business need to do so. For some users, a MAC will have all the functionality they need without Fusion or Parallels (these are the two practical choices for PC emulation on a MAC). If these users are new hires who are more likely to already know the MAC environment, then you should consider it. In a business environment, most business applications are still PC based so it's much harder to justify MACs (until the CEO buys himself one which has happened at my clients). MACs in a very large environment (like you have) are somewhat problematic when the IT department wants to maintain them, lock them down, and control updates. That's something that is a little easier in the PC environment but it is still doable in the MAC environment.

For a home user who needs email, browsing, and Office, either environment will work fine. It's strictly personal preference. For what's it worth, I'm the President of a Microsoft Certified Partner but when my wife needs a new computer I'll be replacing her PC laptop with a MAC (although her iPad really does almost everything she has a need to do).

The two environments can coexist on the same network (even on the same machine). Buy the hammer that's the right one to get the job done but chances are either hammer will get the nail where it needs to be. It's mostly personal preference with no right or wrong answer.

[3dfxMM]

I have noticed that a lot of folks say a Mac is okay because it can be set up to boot as either a PC or a Mac? So a Mac is okay because it can act like a PC and it only costs three times as much to be able to get around to being a PC.

Hmmmmmm

I think I'll keep the PC for 1/3 the price and not have to go through the transformation from Mac to PC.

Bye again!

Chas.

Some folks accept change better than others. For those of you that hate Mac, stop using products that have done everything possible to copy the Mac platform. (Windows, Android, tablets) Mac offers the ability to run a windows environment to allow those who are forced to use legacy programs or interface with their work environments on the PC platform. Nobody in thier right mind would buy a Mac to willingly run an inferior platform. The fact of the matter is that Mac has influenced and pioneered everything from the PC market, music industry, tablets, and telephones. Everyone is in a race to be just like Mac and most have failed miserably like Windows. Amazing how every new version attempts to keep up with Mac but just can't. I will gladly pay the extra money to reward those who are responsible for inovation and creativity rather than those that just copy. A decked out PC with a 27" monitor of the quality you find in an iMac is not going to cost you $500 bucks. 27" iMac is $1500 to $1700 depending on options not $3000. That price tag is not that far off of a similarly equiped PC. Let's stop the silly arguments over cost. Go ahead and buy your $500 emachines every 2 years, at least we all agree they are disposable. I just happen to think they belong in the trash sooner than you do. (2 years sooner to be exact)

I also find it interesting to see how many people comment negatively on Mac and have absolutly no experience with one other than what they have heard. Probably the same bunch that hate Glocks because those plastic guns can get through security at airports. I better be careful about what I say...I like Mac and Glock, that makes me a double threat on this forum.

Please let us know where you buy your iMacs. The list prices for them run from $1799 to $3849. That is without upgrading or adding any software or support packs.

[lrpettit]

I haven't found a great place (price wise) to buy. I just buy from Apple Store. After you buy a certain amount in a year, you can start to get discounts if you register as a business with them.

[magicglock]

Been a while since I bought mine. I found my 21.5" for $1000 and looks like they are now at $1299. The 27" starts at $1799 and Apple has done a super job of fixing prices in the market so you won't find much difference in pricing. (Good for Apple, sucks for us). Your best bet is the Apple store. Keep on mind that a large portion of what you pay for in the iMac is the display. Apple is a little proud of thier displays. If you want to save some considerable cash, look at a MAC mini and add your own display. $599 - $799 for a mini with 1TB drive and 8 GB RAM and same processors. Software is about the same price regardless of pc vs. MAC OS. (Unless you are a pirate).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Apple fan boy. Its just the better tool for me and I'll gladly pay the premium for the experience and that is really what Apple is all about, user experience. For those same reasons, I will never own an iPhone. Apple thinks they know what you want better than you do so they have done some things on the iPhone that tick me off. Everyone has been begging for a bigger screen but Apple said no sorry your thumb only has a limited range of motion so you only can have a screen this big. No thanks...keeping my android. I also hate the fact that the phone forces a lock code if I set up my work email. Granted that is an admin restriction driven by my company but I can get around it on Android. Android locks just my mail app instead of the whole phone. There is no right answer, just preference but you will quickly become a convert if you try an iMac or MAC mini and you won't regret the $ you spent.

[Syntyr]

but a lot of it is software too. People can greatly increase their boot up times by disabling services they never use and background programs that load at start up which is supposeded to make other things load faster, but if you never use those things, you don't need them.

The iTunes installer comes with a lot of extra add-ons, but a majority of people don't need them. The packages for each part can be extracted from the installer and installed separately. MAC users complain of "bloat" on Windows computers, but I find it ironic that Apple is a cause of some of that bloat.

+1

I like to tweak my system. Hence the case I have for it. My wife got tired of my PC's laying out on my desk in pieces. I loved it I can swap out components when i wanted to and I could see all of my hardware. She finally made me get a case. I said any case? and she said fine any case as long as it collects everything in to one spot. When I built it in the new case she looked at it rolled her eyes and walked away. YES fight won!!!

[Syntyr]

So now that security support for Windows XP is going away you'll be upgrading all of those users to Windows 8? What an awesome project!

Nope... We are a bank. Things like this come slowly. We are moving to Windows 7. I figure Windows 8 is probably a few years down the road at least...

MACs in a very large environment (like you have) are somewhat problematic when the IT department wants to maintain them, lock them down, and control updates. That's something that is a little easier in the PC environment but it is still doable in the MAC environment.

Bank... When you ask for Chrome they look at you like their world is coming to an end

(although her iPad really does almost everything she has a need to do).

Love my iPad! However, it wont replace my latop. I miss my mouse! Funny is when I sit down at my laptop and start trying to drag icons across the screen with my finger!

The two environments can coexist on the same network (even on the same machine). Buy the hammer that's the right one to get the job done but chances are either hammer will get the nail where it needs to be. It's mostly personal preference with no right or wrong answer.

[C-dub]

Nope... We are a bank. Things like this come slowly. We are moving to Windows 7. I figure Windows 8 is probably a few years down the road at least...

I can understand that way of thinking for an IS department. My company just started upgrading their Office 2003 suite to 2010, not the latest version. And this year we are upgrading from XP to Windows 7. They seem to skip a version or two, but are always one version behind the latest in almost everything. My industry also moves slowly. We're not the government, but are heavily regulated by them and several other groups.

[3dfxMM]

Been a while since I bought mine. I found my 21.5" for $1000 and looks like they are now at $1299. The 27" starts at $1799 and Apple has done a super job of fixing prices in the market so you won't find much difference in pricing. (Good for Apple, sucks for us). Your best bet is the Apple store. Keep on mind that a large portion of what you pay for in the iMac is the display. Apple is a little proud of thier displays. If you want to save some considerable cash, look at a MAC mini and add your own display. $599 - $799 for a mini with 1TB drive and 8 GB RAM and same processors. Software is about the same price regardless of pc vs. MAC OS. (Unless you are a pirate).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Apple fan boy. Its just the better tool for me and I'll gladly pay the premium for the experience and that is really what Apple is all about, user experience. For those same reasons, I will never own an iPhone. Apple thinks they know what you want better than you do so they have done some things on the iPhone that tick me off. Everyone has been begging for a bigger screen but Apple said no sorry your thumb only has a limited range of motion so you only can have a screen this big. No thanks...keeping my android. I also hate the fact that the phone forces a lock code if I set up my work email. Granted that is an admin restriction driven by my company but I can get around it on Android. Android locks just my mail app instead of the whole phone. There is no right answer, just preference but you will quickly become a convert if you try an iMac or MAC mini and you won't regret the $ you spent.

Shoot. I was hoping you had a really great connection. I get a corporate partner discount through work, but newly released items are not included.

[Syntyr]

We're not the government, but are heavily regulated by them and several other groups.

HEHEHE Here is one for you. About November basically most of the IT staff goes on vacation and doesn't come back until January. Why? because the internal and external auditors sweep through during December and they don't want the IT staff around while they poke and prod everything. If you are a full time employee who has more than 2 weeks of vacation and you are taking more than three vacation days in a month it is HIGHLY recommended that you take a whole 2 weeks. This is so that they can uncover any issues!