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Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:34 pm
by Doug.38PR
In light of John McCain, no friend to conservatism, the RTKBA or the Constitution, getting the nomination and the fact that the two Democratic choices aren't much different; and the fact that, in reality, there has been little difference between the two parties for at least 30 years. More to the point, the Federal, or I guess I had better say National government at this point, has very little interest in anything beyond increasing it's power at home and abroad and the so-called men that we continue to put in Washington are interested only in being a part of this elite power house I would say it is time for this once voluntary Union of States to break up and let each state of people go their own way and decide their own destiny.

Texas or even a group of states like Mississippi, Louisisana and Texas for instance are relatively conservative states as far as the general populations go. (the legislatures of these states are another story...much like the one described in Washington DC) Simply put they (along with many other states in America, are Red States that are currently under the power and influence in may direct and indirect ways of liberal elitiest Northeastern and Left Coast states whose elite leaders control the media, government and system (whether they call themselves Democrat or Republican). Many of the elected Senator's and Congressman elected from these Red states are much the same way (John McCain for example) that simply enjoy power.

In a nutshell, I think it is time for us to stop focusing on Washington DC and wasting our energies there. A better battle plan is to focus on electing good men, non-party line thinkers such as Ron Paul and the likes of him, into local and state offices that seek to preserve best interest and good of Texas (or whatever state he may be in). Secession should be the first priority on the table for the Legislature. Can't cure the wound until you get the bullet out. If this mean's funding our own highways, so be it. Just about every state in the United States today has an economy that could sustain itself FAR above any country in the world and equal to or better than the most wealthy countries in Europe.

This country was founded on the idea of Independence and Sovereignty. Our Founding Fathers believed that the British Colonies should be free to govern themselves as they always had and the chartered rights of the people within those colonies should be preserved. The decendants of those men who moved to our State of Texas took a similar stand in 1836. And, at the risk of being politically incorrect, their ancestors took the same stand again in 1861 in every state from Texas to Virginia.

Some no doubt will balk at this idea making abstract claims of "you lost the war get over it" or "We are all Americans now let's sing God Bless America" or "didn't this get settled by Lincoln in 1865?" To such idolators of the Nation I have no desire to convince as their mind is already made up based on being preached to by blind idealogues. They live in the world of the 1950s of Apple Pie and the victory over Hitler fresh in the minds of their fathers or grandfathers believing that America is still a righteous nation that can do no wrong. Such men proceed with the notion that "might makes right" which the rest of us with any since of principles knows, it does not. While America is in many ways MUCH better off than most other countries it is far from the free and independent local communities it was in the day of the Founding Fathers or even in the 1950s.

Some well meaning people might say that while I may be right about some things here, there is still hope and we need to work together as a Nation to rebuild. Conservatives have been putting their hopes in this since Barry Goldwater or even in the days after Reconstruction as Northerners and Southerners looked to reconcile and more forward. This is proceeding from the liberal and revolutionary idea that change and liberty can only be preserved by centralization of power and whoever has control of that power makes the difference, which of course is a contradiction. This is a notion that our Founding Father's resisted. While the other countries of Europe under the radical enlightenment were reforming themselves in to great (but not good) nations while dropping the heads of aristocrats into baskets, Americans mistrusted centralization of power (owing to their Calvinistic background of the total depravity of man) to a small body of men over the whole.

It would be far better for California to be alone and away from us to determine her own destiny. If she wants to have homosexuals teaching in their schools and to their boyscouts then that is the business of the people of California. It does not have to be the business of Texas :txflag: . But as we are all connected in the United States today, leglislation from the Supreme Court, Federal courts, the House and Senate continue to infringe on our states libery in all areas regarding morality, guns, schools etc.

In short, while you may gain some temporary victories short of what you set out to do under our current system, you are ultimately going to lose. We've seen this going downhill since Reconstruction, some would say only since the 1950s. Nothing really changed with Reagan (he was one man...and even he wasn't entirely ideal with his gun legislation and amnesty for illegals among other things), and nothing really changed with the Republican controlled House, Senate and White house. If fact, if anything, they've mostly gotten worse.

I say secession is the answer. But before secession can come realisticly, people's mindset and spiritual wellbeing has to change.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:12 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
Remember, some anti-gunner's read gun boards just as some of us keep up with the Brady Campaign's website. Preaching secession is a quick way to get ignored.

Chas.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:51 pm
by KBCraig
Given the nationwide primary results, I can tell you that there are roughly 5% of American voters who are ready for a major change in course.

Everyone else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:55 pm
by Tactical_Texan_CHL
I just can't give up on the good old US of A yet :patriot: . Edited to remove attempt to be funny. In light of Charles' very good point below, I want the same thing he does, so joke removed.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:02 pm
by Doug.38PR
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Remember, some anti-gunner's read gun boards just as some of us keep up with the Brady Campaign's website. Preaching secession is a quick way to get ignored.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton,
anti-gunners, liberals etc. may find secession laughable. However, as with all their other views, they are full of bunk. These are prinicples that have been part of Western Civilization, and indeed the world, since time began. That is, the right of people to preserve and protect their own destiny. As said, this country was founded on secession. Contrary to what liberals may thing, it is a valid alternative.

Having said that, like I said before, it is not something that is going to happen tomorrow because Doug.38PR said it on an internet forum. People in general have to change. People have to understand that hope does not lie in Washington DC or even in politics per se.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:06 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
I'm not going to debate this issue. TexasCHLforum is not going to be used as a platform to discuss succession a/k/a revolution. That is an issue that will earn the forum a label and reputation that will not help us accomplish the mission of this Board.

Chas.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:12 pm
by Doug.38PR
earn a reputation in who's eyes? Liberals? Left wing wackos? They have their opinion of us anyway. Secession is a topic that has been common throughout American history (certainly predating the so-called Civil War era) brought up by some of the best minds and statesmen in our history and even some good minds today in the conservative movement from Richard Weaver in the 1950s to Thomas Woods, Walter Williams and Tom DiLorenzo (and many more) today. It can be discussed rationally through honest discourse without coming across as a wild eyed paramilitary wacko in the woods playing G.I. Joe.
See:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=28529
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods22.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo103.html


In regards to the mission of this board. I've lost count of how many posters I've seen with taglines suggesting armed resistance to those who would steal their guns or take a way the Right to Keep and Bear arms in general "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" or "Lose the 2nd Amendment and the 1st is the next to go." Not that I am advocating violence or anarchy (not that such posters are either). But secession is a nonviolent way way to preserve liberties such as the 2nd Amendment and certainly the 1st. Afterall, when all is said and done, if the option of secession isn't at least on the table...then the National government can do anything it wants to to the states (including regulate or reverse your right to own or bare arms)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... e=nextpage

Second Amendment an individual right



The U.S. Supreme Court will soon decide D.C. v. Heller, the first case in more than 60 years in which the court will confront the meaning of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Although Heller is about the constitutionality of the D.C. handgun ban, the court's decision will have an impact far beyond the District ("Promises breached," Op-Ed, Thursday).



The court must decide in Heller whether the Second Amendment secures a right for individuals to keep and bear arms or merely grants states the power to arm their militias, the National Guard. This latter view is called the "collective rights" theory.



A collective rights decision by the court would violate the contract by which Montana entered into statehood, called the Compact With the United States and archived at Article I of the Montana Constitution. When Montana and the United States entered into this bilateral contract in 1889, the U.S. approved the right to bear arms in the Montana Constitution, guaranteeing the right of "any person" to bear arms, clearly an individual right.



There was no assertion in 1889 that the Second Amendment was susceptible to a collective rights interpretation, and the parties to the contract understood the Second Amendment to be consistent with the declared Montana constitutional right of "any person" to bear arms.



As a bedrock principle of law, a contract must be honored so as to give effect to the intent of the contracting parties. A collective rights decision by the court in Heller would invoke an era of unilaterally revisable contracts by violating the statehood contract between the United States and Montana, and many other states.



Numerous Montana lawmakers have concurred in a resolution raising this contract-violation issue. It's posted at progunleaders.org. The United States would do well to keep its contractual promise to the states that the Second Amendment secures an individual right now as it did upon execution of the statehood contract.



BRAD JOHNSON



Montana secretary of state



Helena, Mont.



I just can't give up on the good old US of A yet
Well, the good old US of A isn't so good anymore. In fact, nullification and secession, are two principles of American liberty that originally kept us the good old US of A.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:57 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
This is exactly the type of discussion that's going to get the Off-Topic sub-forum deleted. I tried to politely hint to you to stop with the revolutionary talk, but I see that didn't work. Succession isn't non-violent. Mexico didn't waive good-bye to Texas, nor did the U.S. waive good-bye to the Confederate States. You are advocating a shooting revolution no matter how you try to spin it. Stop now!

Chas.

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:38 pm
by anygunanywhere
Doug,

There are other boards that would welcome such discussions.

Try Armed Polite Society.

Anygun

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:59 pm
by CompVest
Thank you Charles. :clapping:

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:12 pm
by Calabash-kid
What is very interesting to me is that when George W. Bush was elected last time quite a number of liberals; especially in Vermont, began talking about seceding from the Union.

So I guess the thought process works both ways - liberal and conservative.

Jerry

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:32 pm
by barres
Charles L. Cotton wrote:This is exactly the type of discussion that's going to get the Off-Topic sub-forum deleted. I tried to politely hint to you to stop with the revolutionary talk, but I see that didn't work. Succession isn't non-violent. Mexico didn't waive good-bye to Texas, nor did the U.S. waive good-bye to the Confederate States. You are advocating a shooting revolution no matter how you try to spin it. Stop now!

Chas.
I applaud you, Charles for running a great board. I do have to say, though that there is absolutely nothing wrong with success. But secession is not something we need to discuss here.















Sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge to make a little jab. ;-)

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:07 pm
by Commander Cody
I agree with the "Stop NOW"!!

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:11 pm
by Doug.38PR
why so sensitive?

Re: Is it time for Texas and/or other states to Secede?

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:25 pm
by Wildscar
Doug.38PR wrote:why so sensitive?
Becasue like the rest of us Charles is not one of those guys who has to buy a new new car just cause it ran out of gas. :reddevil