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Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:53 am
by Jason73
Action Alert: Washington DC Already Planning To Restrict Law-Abiding Citizens 2nd Amendment Rights
The following is a memo sent to Washington, DC residents by Cathy Lanier, Washington, DC Chief of Police:
From: Lanier, Cathy (MPD)
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: Supreme Court Update
Residents,
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court today struck down part of the District of Columbia's handgun ban. I wanted to drop you a note to let you know the immediate impact of this decision.
The Supreme Court's ruling is limited and leaves intact various other laws that apply to private residents who would purchase handguns or other firearms for home possession. It is important that everyone know that:
a.. First, all firearms must be registered with the Metropolitan Police Department's Firearms Registration Section before they may be lawfully possessed.
a.. Second, automatic and semiautomatic handguns generally remain illegal and may not be registered.
a.. Third, the Supreme Court's ruling is limited to handguns in the home and does not entitle anyone to carry firearms outside his or her own home.
Lastly, although the Court struck the safe storage provision on the ground that it was too broadly written, in my opinion firearms in the home should be kept either unloaded and disassembled or locked.
I will comply with the Court's reading of the Second Amendment in its letter and spirit. At the same time, I will continue to vigorously enforce the District's other gun-related laws. I will also continue to find additional ways to protect the District's residents against the scourge of gun violence.
Residents who want additional information can visit the Metropolitan Police Website at
http://www.mpdc.dc.gov/gunregistration. Residents with questions are encouraged to contact the Firearms Registration Section at 202-727-9490.
Sncerely,
Cathy Lanier
Chief of Police
Memo Source:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dc/2008/ ... preme.html
Action Needed:
Although Ms. Lanier and those in charge of the District of Columbia residents’ safety are entitled to their opinions, I firmly believe that they are dead wrong in their interpretation of the Supreme Court’s ruling and the spirit of the ruling. I supposed that I could understand things from their point of view if they had one of the cleaner and safer cities in the nation, but we all know that is not true. I ask you all to call the Chief’s office, write a letter or email and let her know just how you feel about her memo.
Washington, DC Chief of Police Contact Info:
Email:
Cathy.Lanier@dc.gov
Phone: 202 727.4218
Fax: 202 727.9524
Mailing Address:
Chief of Police
Cathy Lanier
300 Indiana Ave., NW
Room 5080
Washington, DC 20001
Please remember to be polite and courteous. Not all those that work in the office may have her elitist view or the elitist view of the mayor.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:02 am
by KD5NRH
a.. Second, automatic and semiautomatic handguns generally remain illegal and may not be registered.
Considering the "common use" statement in the SC opinion, I'd like her to defend this statement with regard to semiautos.
Heck even I have...ummm...well, ok, if we count the wife's 2,
we have more semiautos than revolvers.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:33 am
by HerbM
KD5NRH wrote:a.. Second, automatic and semiautomatic handguns generally remain illegal and may not be registered.
Considering the "common use" statement in the SC opinion, I'd like her to defend this statement with regard to semiautos.
Heck even I have...ummm...well, ok, if we count the wife's 2,
we have more semiautos than revolvers.
The only revolver I own has a bad firing pin and I had been hoping someone would offer a "gun buy back" for $50-100.
Then I could buy more ammo or supplement it and buy something useful.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:01 pm
by quidni
HerbM wrote:The only revolver I own has a bad firing pin and I had been hoping someone would offer a "gun buy back" for $50-100.
Then I could buy more ammo or supplement it and buy something useful.
Is it worth replacing the firing pin/hammer asembly? (dunno what kind of revolver you have)
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 pm
by 57Coastie
Jason,
Good question, and I do not yet see an explicit answer to your question from one of our forum members.
Jim
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:24 pm
by AEA
The letter is incorrect and will be challenged until DC gets it right.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:09 pm
by stevie_d_64
Visions of being held in contempt by the Supreme Court of the United States of America are dancing in my head right now...
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:35 pm
by 57Coastie
If I might take the liberty of slightly rephrasing Jason's question, which I suspect comes closer to his original intention -- "Where, in Chief Lanier's memo, does she ignore a clear decision of the Court in Heller?" To stir the pot a little, and also to play Devil's Advocate, in my naivete I simply cannot find an instance of this in the chief's memo. I am speaking of a decision taken by the Court, and not of meanderings of Judge Scalia hinting what the opinion of "the five" might be on some niggling questions left for the future, be the hints classic dicta or simply rambling.
For example, did the Court decide that semiautomatics are no longer illegal in DC, or did it not, on the other hand, hint that for historic and pragmatic reasons they may no longer be illegal, if the question is ever properly framed and brought to the Court?
As another example, did the Court decide that firearms need no longer be registered in DC? Of course not. The Court decided that the process of registration cannot be such that one's right to have a handgun in one's house for self-defense cannot be so unfair, arbitrary and capricious that the right is essentially abrogated. The real issue with respect to registration comes when a change is made in DC's rules with respect to registration, if at all.
ln my opinion this memo was drafted by some smart lawyers in the DC government, and they gave no unnecessary ground in this war. If we sit back and just snipe, as was so often the case before Heller, instead of putting our liberty and resources at risk, or finding some good lawyers like Mr. Heller did, this war is going to continue for another 200 years. This is not an academic issue -- it goes to the guts of what RKBA really means. Heller may give some vague contours, but clearly it does not dispose of those niggling questions left, some of which are set up by Chief Lanier's memo.
Jim
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:38 pm
by AEA
Somebody needs to send that letter to FOX news and highlight the following as being in defiance of the SCOTUS Opinion:
a.. Second, automatic and semiautomatic handguns generally remain illegal and may not be registered.
Lastly, although the Court struck the safe storage provision on the ground that it was too broadly written, in my opinion firearms in the home should be kept either unloaded and disassembled or locked.
Also if they continues with this attitude:
I will also continue to find additional ways to protect the District's residents against the scourge of gun violence.
Then they need to find LEGAL ways that do not infringe on a Law Abiding Citizen's 2a RIGHTS!
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:41 pm
by HerbM
quidni wrote:HerbM wrote:The only revolver I own has a bad firing pin and I had been hoping someone would offer a "gun buy back" for $50-100.
Then I could buy more ammo or supplement it and buy something useful.
Is it worth replacing the firing pin/hammer asembly? (dunno what kind of revolver you have)
Only if I can buy/obtain the part and do it myself. I am only an apprentice level, amateur gunsmith.
It's an (older) Rossi .38 (basically a .38 special to my untrained eye)
Madeo Rossi SA
Leopoldo
Made in Brazil Garcia Sporting Arms Wash. DC 150720
This is NOT the same as the current Rossi USA which offers a lifetime warranty on Rossi arms which they import -- I need to call them anyway and see if they have the part.
Odd fact: The only firearm I have ever owned or been assigned (in the military) which failed utterly and permanently is a revolver.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:04 pm
by HerbM
It won't be the Supreme Court which finds the DC government in contempt -- the District Court of DC which will do that, or else the DC Circuit Court which gave Heller his initial victory will order this.
I wonder if DC residents will be forced to go buy an illegally imported (from Virginia into DC) gun on 14th St NE from some drug dealer or gang banger, take it to Virginia and store it in a storage locker, then apply to have it "registered"?
[It might be safer to do this at the Maryland-DC line, and immediately step across that line -- legally -- as soon as the firearm changes ownership -- but Maryland isn't as gun friendly as VA, and DC-VA don't have a "land" border to my knowledge; while doing it on the Memorial Bridge would be obviously exposed to DC police surveillance even if quite a bit more patriotic -- Memorial bridge is within sight of the Iwo Jimo Memorial, Arlingtong Cemetary, AND the Washington and Lincoln Memorials.
]
I am not clear this is legal, but the mere fact that a previously legal gun has gone through some illegal transaction (importation into DC) would not (necessarily) make that firearm illegal in perpetuity, especially without being seized as evidence in some court case -- once it is returned to VA it would seem to be a perfectly legally owned firearm.
Maybe the DC residents can "get guns off the street" simply by BUYING them for home protection.
This is not completely facetious as there are apparently Chicago gun owners who keep their firearms in storage (undisclosed locations) outside the City.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:34 pm
by boomerang
57Coastie wrote:Good question, and I do not yet see an explicit answer to your question from one of our forum members.
The only question Jason asked is in the subject line. The post seems to be a quote cut and pasted from somewhere else.
To answer the "Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?" question, we would have to look at whether Heller can legally possess a handgun at home today.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:39 pm
by WarHawk-AVG
Perhaps this dweeb needs to read the Heller report in detail
http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/HellerOpinion.pdf
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:03 am
by HerbM
I don't know who you are referencing as a "dweeb", partly because I didn't notice any dweebishness in the threat, but it would not be clear from reading Heller anyway.
The ANSWER (as much as we can know it) is approximately this: Yes, Heller can have his gun, probably not tonight since he doesn't have a permit (yet) but given the case they would not want to arrest him if he does take it home.
DC will enact registration rules and procedures within 21 days (of the decision), by the police chief on the orders of the mayor. Likely those rules will require a revolver (at least initially) and be odious(and perhaps expensive) but they will let Mr. Heller who is a security guard (and probably has a revolver for that at work) take his firearm home (in a locked case I would guess.)
No one could (easily) PURCHASE a handgun in DC though since there are only 6 FFLs we have identified so far -- 2 are bogus (one is the VPC gun control organization, one is the BATFE itself, two are theater companies that likely have this to be able to deal with stage guns, and the other two don't have a web presence -- these last might be able to at least receive a firearm ordered from another state.
Neither Heller nor anyone else in DC can BUY a handgun by going to Virginia or Maryland since that requires one to be a resident of the state.
That out of state handgun purchase law is likely unconstitutional too on both equal protection (i.e., DC residents cannot have less rights than other citizens), and privileges and immunities (no one LOSES rights by crossing a state line nor has fewer rights than people who live there*), separately. And this requires no incorporation probably since it is a Federal law (although the states may be mirroring it too.)
* You cannot be denied things like the right to own property in Oklahoma just because you live in Texas. You cannot be denied (Federal) rights just because you live in one state and not another. Voting is special since you can only vote in one parallel jurisdiction, so once you drop that right in one state you must be allowed it in another but you don't get to vote in both just because you're visiting. You get to vote, just not necessarily in the both elections.)
Does Heller get his gun? Yes. When? Soon.
Re: Washington DC Ignoring Court Ruling?
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:37 am
by 57Coastie
HerbM wrote:Does Heller get his gun? Yes. When? Soon.
Herb,
Is it not clear from reading
Heller that Mr. Heller still has to go through hoops in order to own, possess and register a handgun in DC, with the question now being whether or not the hoops are reasonable? As I just opined in response to a PM this morning, the real brilliance of Mr. Heller's lawyers was to limit the issue squarely before the Court to just one -- the issue of individual vs. collective right, fully recognizing at the time that the devil was in the details, saving those details for later?
To rephrase this a bit and to look at it from another direction, did the Court decide that Mr. Heller, or anyone else in DC, could register a handgun merely by submitting a piece of paper to the authorities? I would suggest that the Court did not go that far. I would suggest that the Court left for future attention whether or not the new requirements for registration, which we have not yet seen, pass muster, which demonstrates the brilliance of the way Mr. Heller's lawyers set his case up. Indeed, has not Mr. Heller publicly recognized that he accepts a requirement for registration, just so that the bureaucratic hurdles do not in essence foreclose any effort to do so?
Unless I have missed something, I do not believe we have enough information to conclude that Mr. Heller will get his gun soon. Once again, the Court's decision is about gun bans, not about specific gun control regulations. The court has only left the door open for the devil's details to be decided, even in Mr. Heller's case itself. It is inconceivable to me, for example, that as the facts are now known the U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia might, whether or not the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Distlrict of Columbia Circuit intervenes, order DC to immediately issue Mr. Heller a license. I am confident that DC's lawyers are preparing to, if not already prepared to, have one hoop after another tested by the courts before this ever happens. I think that we will be deluding ourselves about the true holding of the Court if we think otherwise, and that we will risk losing control of the situation if we sit back patting ourselves on the back.
With respect,
Jim