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It looks like this brutal new form of terrorism is on the way just as sure as the advance of the fire ants was not to be denied whenever they marched north. I heard on the radio that a majority of the weaponry and firepower actually is originating in the U.S. in the form of individual and small FFL'er transactions. I hope everyone that deals a gun here and there will give an extra thought and hair of scrutiny to the stranger they sell to. In this new climate of violence, I'd liken such a careless sale to the arming of the enemy, with ignorance being no excuse. I don't care how anyone else looks at it, I consider ruthless killers to be our greatest enemy, followed by those that continuously rail and drone to take our weapons of self defense away. I'll be extra judicious from now on and if you will, please do so too.

I have yet to see a Texas gun shop that sells full auto weapon, grenades, ect. to just anybody as these news reports claim/insinuate. I know there are class 3 dealers, but none of them can/will sell a class 3 weapon to someone off the street as its a very involved federal process. I would also like to point out if a dealer has any common sense he is already doing what he can to avoid sales to people trying to make straw purchases. The way stop the flow of guns into Mexico is not to infringe on our rights further, it is instead to increase border security.

G.A. Heath wrote:I have yet to see a Texas gun shop that sells full auto weapon, grenades, ect. to just anybody as these news reports claim/insinuate. I know there are class 3 dealers, but none of them can/will sell a class 3 weapon to someone off the street as its a very involved federal process. I would also like to point out if a dealer has any common sense he is already doing what he can to avoid sales to people trying to make straw purchases. The way stop the flow of guns into Mexico is not to infringe on our rights further, it is instead to increase border security.

The point's not whether you see it done or not, the point's that it's being done. I've yet to see one of these murders occur either, but you can bet those news reports are no mere claim/insinuation. There's tombstones every which way to attest to that fact and a chl forum classifieds .22 short between the eyes is every bit the class 3 weapon to the mourners and survivors, I assure you.

Its really a matter of the media trying to make people think class 3 (Full auto) weapons are readily available on the street. I assure you there is not 1 class 3 dealer selling full auto weapons to the average Joe who just walks in off the street so that he can take it to Mexico. They may be buying AR15s and semi-auto only AK clones then taking them to Mexico, but those are not the weapons being portrayed by the media. The media may refer to them but every news story I have seen shows a full auto weapon. This is just like when the Clinton AWB was passed, the media would say "Assault weapon" and show a full auto weapon being fired. There was not 1 class 3 weapon banned under the Clinton AWB. The problem in Mexico is that it proves gun control doesn't work: The cops have guns, the criminals have guns smuggled in illegally, and most importantly the innocent civilians who are terrorized, raped, and murdered do not have an effective means of defending themselves.

I wonder if they have traced any of these guns that are going south from the U.S., to determine exactly how they are getting them.
As for full auto, I suspect they could be buying Semi-auto ARs and converting them in Mexico. Plenty of Mexican machinists able to do the work.

Sodbuster wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:I have yet to see a Texas gun shop that sells full auto weapon, grenades, ect. to just anybody as these news reports claim/insinuate. I know there are class 3 dealers, but none of them can/will sell a class 3 weapon to someone off the street as its a very involved federal process.

The point's not whether you see it done or not, the point's that it's being done.

Then it's being done by criminals and government agents.

Everyone else needs federal approval for every single Class 3 transfer. Dealer or private. That's the law for 75 years.

Rex B wrote:I wonder if they have traced any of these guns that are going south from the U.S., to determine exactly how they are getting them.
As for full auto, I suspect they could be buying Semi-auto ARs and converting them in Mexico. Plenty of Mexican machinists able to do the work.

The report I heard was on the local radio news; no pics of hooded thugs toting automatic weapons nor any geopolitical spin on the story. The crux of the report encompassed every concievable type of weapon, not just bunker busters and 50 cals. Many of these murders are execution style, a bullet to the brain from as common a 9 mm or .380 as we all sell and trade here and there. How about we get off the kick of blaming criminals, governments, and insufficient laws in the interest of noting that any one of us that's passed on a firearm via this site or any other may have once owned a handgun that just snuffed out one of those innocent lives. I simply asked for folks to take an extra measure of caution selling things these days so as to reduce the risk that you or yours isn't the next victim. Thanks.

Sodbuster wrote:

Rex B wrote:I wonder if they have traced any of these guns that are going south from the U.S., to determine exactly how they are getting them.
As for full auto, I suspect they could be buying Semi-auto ARs and converting them in Mexico. Plenty of Mexican machinists able to do the work.

The report I heard was on the local radio news; no pics of hooded thugs toting automatic weapons nor any geopolitical spin on the story. The crux of the report encompassed every concievable type of weapon, not just bunker busters and 50 cals. Many of these murders are execution style, a bullet to the brain from as common a 9 mm or .380 as we all sell and trade here and there. How about we get off the kick of blaming criminals, governments, and insufficient laws in the interest of noting that any one of us that's passed on a firearm via this site or any other may have once owned a handgun that just snuffed out one of those innocent lives. I simply asked for folks to take an extra measure of caution selling things these days so as to reduce the risk that you or yours isn't the next victim. Thanks.

I ensure that anyone who buys an item from me is legal to own it, If I have reason to believe they are not going to use it legally or sell it legally then I will not sell to them. I can safely bet that just about everyone on this forum does the same, gun stores are required by law to do this also. The crux of the matter is that criminals will get the guns, our laws and Mexico's laws will not stop that, what will make a difference is letting the innocent defend themselves. Also, please forgive me for blaming the poor little innocent criminals. I will not give up my rights because they make some criminals job safer in my own country, and I sure as heck won't do so in order to make their job safer in some other country.

Sodbuster wrote:How about we get off the kick of blaming criminals

The criminals are responsible for their own actions.

If you blame anyone else you should blame their mothers for feeding them as infants instead of letting them die before they could grow up to commit crimes. What about the grocery stores that sold their mothers food? Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

Just a reminder

Strong oppinions for sure on a tipic such as this. Lets not let it get personal please.

Sodbuster wrote:How about we get off the kick of blaming criminals, governments, and insufficient laws in the interest of noting that any one of us that's passed on a firearm via this site or any other may have once owned a handgun that just snuffed out one of those innocent lives.

Wow.

I might have sold a car that is used by a drunk driver to hurt or kill another individual but that does not mean that I am or should feel responsible.

Anygunanywhere

The firearms causing this round of madness were semi-autos (mostly AR's) legally purchased from FFL's. Carter Country was the source for many of them.

The bogus buyer is paid $100 to complete the purchase. Yea, I know, there are already laws against straw purchases.

Of course, the media may portray them as full auto and they are routinely called assault rifles, even by some of us.

To me, this threat is serious. If the semi-autos can be portrayed as a threat in their semi-auto configuration, then we are in more danger of losing them.

Mike1951 wrote:The firearms causing this round of madness were semi-autos (mostly AR's) legally purchased from FFL's. Carter Country was the source for many of them.

The bogus buyer is paid $100 to complete the purchase. Yea, I know, there are already laws against straw purchases.

Of course, the media may portray them as full auto and they are routinely called assault rifles, even by some of us.

To me, this threat is serious. If the semi-autos can be portrayed as a threat in their semi-auto configuration, then we are in more danger of losing them.

Well Mike, I'm proud to see someone finally put a source to the problem rather than just write it off as the bad guys just magically finding these things in their hands out of thin air. I was starting to think the reports on the cartel wars were bogus since there were simply no sources for the weaponry at all by most accounts here. I'm as positive as everyone else that this business isn't occuring widespread by knowing, willing suppliers from our ranks, but I'm not near as positive that our ranks don't contribute to the supply, even if indirectly. As far as the car comment, I'd rather take my chances furnishing a killer with a car than with a gun. We can debate drunk driving in another thread at another time.

G.A. Heath wrote:

Sodbuster wrote:

Rex B wrote:I wonder if they have traced any of these guns that are going south from the U.S., to determine exactly how they are getting them.
As for full auto, I suspect they could be buying Semi-auto ARs and converting them in Mexico. Plenty of Mexican machinists able to do the work.

The report I heard was on the local radio news; no pics of hooded thugs toting automatic weapons nor any geopolitical spin on the story. The crux of the report encompassed every concievable type of weapon, not just bunker busters and 50 cals. Many of these murders are execution style, a bullet to the brain from as common a 9 mm or .380 as we all sell and trade here and there. How about we get off the kick of blaming criminals, governments, and insufficient laws in the interest of noting that any one of us that's passed on a firearm via this site or any other may have once owned a handgun that just snuffed out one of those innocent lives. I simply asked for folks to take an extra measure of caution selling things these days so as to reduce the risk that you or yours isn't the next victim. Thanks.

I ensure that anyone who buys an item from me is legal to own it, If I have reason to believe they are not going to use it legally or sell it legally then I will not sell to them. I can safely bet that just about everyone on this forum does the same, gun stores are required by law to do this also. The crux of the matter is that criminals will get the guns, our laws and Mexico's laws will not stop that, what will make a difference is letting the innocent defend themselves. Also, please forgive me for blaming the poor little innocent criminals. I will not give up my rights because they make some criminals job safer in my own country, and I sure as heck won't do so in order to make their job safer in some other country.

G.A. I guess you lost me on that last part. What rights are you refusing to give up that has to do with gun sales to killers?

Sodbuster wrote: .... As far as the car comment, I'd rather take my chances furnishing a killer with a car than with a gun.....

Why is that? Would the victim be less dead somehow?

I think that some of the anti propaganda has infiltrated your brain and you're getting wrapped around the axle about gun sales because of the emotion surrounding the word "gun." Of all the myriad inanimate objects that can be used as a tool to kill someone, only guns have a ridiculous amount of media-generated emotional baggage attached to them. Why does no one worry about bricks, hammers, clotheslines or pillows - all of which have been used as murder weapons - falling into the wrong hands?