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Please don't respond unless you are willing to have a lengthy discussion about the nature of the program.

A new one they haven't implemented yet: the Get off my Back program.

bdickens wrote:A new one they haven't implemented yet: the Get off my Back program.

My favorite to hate is the 'load the SCOTUS with politically rather than judically motivated' members program.

When I did my citizenship studies I was under the impression that the SCOTUS was there as a 'checks and balance' to make sure the goverment 'toed the line' now it appears that it is really there so that the government can actually have them debate and redraw the line. This to me is the scariest thing that is happening in the US today. Forget illegal immigration, forget gun control, forget health care. What we are seeing is the eroding of the 'checks and balance' system that was put in place to protect the people from the governemt becoming too powerful. The SCOTUS is becoming something is shouldn't ever be and that is a government puppet. If you need proof just look at the recent MacDonald v's Chicago vote. They (SCOTUS) are supposed to interpret the law, how can it not be a 9-0 vote if they did that?

I fear that SCOTUS is going to eventually be a government leg that will help the incumbant president and congress have a backdoor to making new laws that it was never intended to have by the founding fathers.

Kevinf2349 wrote:I fear that SCOTUS is going to eventually be a government leg that will help the incumbant president and congress have a backdoor to making new laws that it was never intended to have by the founding fathers.

Learn our history. It has always been like this. When Franklin Roosevelt was President he got a number of unconstitutional laws passed. The Court keep striking them down, which angered FDR. So he threatened to "pack" the Court by nominating several new members. If he had done so, the Court would have gone from 9 Justices to 15. The Court was cowed by his threat and began to rule in his favor.

There are many many examples in our history of the same sorts of things that go on today; corruption, politicizing of the issues, 5-4 Supreme Court decisions that anger the sitting President, sex scandals, lobbying scandals, etc., etc. Somehow America still survives.

So long as the people pay attention and kick the crooks out, the system will continue to chug along.

baldeagle wrote:Learn our history. It has always been like this. When Franklin Roosevelt was President he got a number of unconstitutional laws passed. The Court keep striking them down, which angered FDR. So he threatened to "pack" the Court by nominating several new members. If he had done so, the Court would have gone from 9 Justices to 15. The Court was cowed by his threat and began to rule in his favor.

It's a shame they passed the garbage that is Social Security...that's the first one that needs to go!

pbwalker wrote:

baldeagle wrote:Learn our history. It has always been like this. When Franklin Roosevelt was President he got a number of unconstitutional laws passed. The Court keep striking them down, which angered FDR. So he threatened to "pack" the Court by nominating several new members. If he had done so, the Court would have gone from 9 Justices to 15. The Court was cowed by his threat and began to rule in his favor.

It's a shame they passed the garbage that is Social Security...that's the first one that needs to go!

One of the assigned passwords at work begins with the letters "FDR". I think of Social Security and the Wagner Act everytime I type it in.

Federal income tax?

Fangs wrote:Federal income tax?

Second only to the federal reserve system.

Fangs wrote:Federal income tax?

So I've often wondered about this...

How would we go about bridge maintenance? Road surface repair? What's going to pay the FDA to ensure our food is safe?

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to see it go away, but I am not sure how any of the "little things" we are accustomed to will still be financed.

National Sales Tax?

pbwalker wrote:How would we go about bridge maintenance? Road surface repair?

State and local taxes and tolls.

pbwalker wrote:What's going to pay the FDA to ensure our food is safe?

FDA? Where is that in the constitution?

For legitimate, constitutional federal expenses, a flat sales tax of a few percent with no loopholes would be enough, and would be more fair than the current income tax system.

I'm partial to the U.S. Navy.

That's a government program, right?

'

Bridges and roads are pretty easy, we already have toll roads that are paid for by those that use them. The businesses along those roads and bridges have a vested interest in keeping the roads in good shape to make it easier and more pleasant to reach their businesses, so they can organize themselves and contract the roadwork.


It is clear that if word got out about a grocery store selling bad food that store would suffer a great loss of business, and possibly go out of business. Therefore, they have vested interest in providing quality food. Besides setting up their own standards in order to protect their reputation from popular opinion and their rear end from lawsuits, they could hire independent food inspectors. Like the grocery, the food inspector would also have a vested interest in doing an excellent job since the slightest slip could cost them the entire business due to people choosing other suppliers and being damaged by lawsuits (if you were out sick for a week due to eating tainted food that was sold as good you could sue for lost wages, etc).

This type of private system can work on nearly all applications within a truly free market. When people have a choice they can always choose someone else to do business with, and that quickly eliminates the poor businesses and rewards the good one.

A good example of this is Consumer Reports and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Consumer Reports bases their whole business on honest, quality evaluations. Same for the IIHS, standards upheld without the need for government because the insurance companies want to know which cars are likely to cost them, drivers want to know what will keep them safest, and the car companies want to gain sales from the reputation for making safe vehicles.

Of course, any system such as this can fall prey to incompetence and/or corruption. The car companies can pay off IIHS to give them a good rating. Consumer Reports might not understand the product they review or how to collect quality data. But in no way is the government, performing the same services, any more immune from these problems. In fact, the government is much more likely to be incompetent and corrupt since those providing the service are much less dependent on the quality of their service for their survival. It is much easier to not buy a Consumer Reports magazine or ignore the IIHS then it is to rid yourself of DOT's standards, or the EPA (or BATFE etc.).

There is plenty of literature available discussing the organization and structure of society without the coercive force of government. I'll try to dig up some relevant material this weekend when I have a bit more time.


That being said, a sales tax is more palatable to me than any sort of income tax since at least the sales tax can be seen as the fee paid for government enforcement of contracts. Granted, that can be done privately too, but it is a step in the right direction since it is closer for paying for a service (paying a specified fee for a specified service) than any income tax, which can only be thought of as theft. Not to mention, the privatization of currently government provided (forced) services actually opens up huge opportunities for the creation of new businesses.

I was partial to the DCM program sponsored by the Department of Defense. I think it's long gone, but has been replaced by the CMP program, that all TSRA members have entry to.

I bought an M1.30 caliber carbine for $16.00 from them when I was a member of the NRA. But that was a couple of years ago.