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I have an idea there will be gunfire in our cul-de-sac soon. I have a neighbor (Clay) that lives two doors to my left. He and his family are good people. He was telling me Tuesday that two pit-bulls came into the cul-de-sac that day while I was at work. He said one had a head “the size of a cinder block”. They shredded the cat that belongs to my next door neighbors on my right. Clay’s wife was about to leave and she yelled at them about 60 feet away then she had to jump in her truck and close the door quick because they went after her.

Clay grabbed his son’s pellet rifle, stepped out the front door and popped one. That just made it mad and they went for him. He jumped back inside the front door and they eventually left. My neighbor on my left had to shoot the cat because it was still alive.

Clay went and bought a shotgun and he is going to buy a pistol. I am going to give him a little gun safety/ maintenance info and help him select a pistol.

We had almost the exact same situation with two pit-bulls about a year ago but they killed a cat and not just left it mangled but alive. The SO and county animal control was notified the last time, picked the dogs up and the woman got them back. Small children play in our cul-de-sac. I think the next time they show up, the problem may be solved permanently.

VoiceofReason wrote:I have an idea there will be gunfire in our cul-de-sac soon. I have a neighbor (Clay) that lives two doors to my left. He and his family are good people. He was telling me Tuesday that two pit-bulls came into the cul-de-sac that day while I was at work. He said one had a head “the size of a cinder block”. They shredded the cat that belongs to my next door neighbors on my right. Clay’s wife was about to leave and she yelled at them about 60 feet away then she had to jump in her truck and close the door quick because they went after her.

Clay grabbed his son’s pellet rifle, stepped out the front door and popped one. That just made it mad and they went for him. He jumped back inside the front door and they eventually left. My neighbor on my left had to shoot the cat because it was still alive.

Clay went and bought a shotgun and he is going to buy a pistol. I am going to give him a little gun safety/ maintenance info and help him select a pistol.

We had almost the exact same situation with two pit-bulls about a year ago but they killed a cat and not just left it mangled but alive. The SO and county animal control was notified the last time, picked the dogs up and the woman got them back. Small children play in our cul-de-sac. I think the next time they show up, the problem may be solved permanently.

I wish you had been home. Everyday that those maulers are not eliminated exponentially increases the chance of human injury or death. Keep us apprised.

OP.... I suggest that you ask the mods to delete this thread.
One word... "Premeditated"

Sorry for your trouble. Hopefully it gets resolved without having to kill a poorly owned animal.

VoiceofReason wrote:
Clay grabbed his son’s pellet rifle, stepped out the front door and popped one. That just made it mad and they went for him.

Yeah, not a bright idea.

We rent shop space where we work on cars. The guy who rented the bay next to us ran a wood working business and had a pit bull named "jack". Jack was a pretty nice dog, but it was a little disconcerting to be working on something, hear breathing and have Jack just sitting there watching you work.

One day Jack showed up with a bandage on his shoulder. Asked the owner about it, and Jack had apparently got a hold of a smaller dog. 2 shotgun blasts later, he finally decided he was bored with his chew toy and stopped attacking it.

Jack was running around like nothing was wrong. I'm sure they were using birdshot, but still..... Opened my eyes to the sort of abuse pits can take when they've got their blood up.

If you have to deal with them, be careful!

RoyGBiv wrote:OP.... I suggest that you ask the mods to delete this thread.
One word... "Premeditated"

Sorry for your trouble. Hopefully it gets resolved without having to kill a poorly owned animal.

It's not any more "premeditated" than going hunting the first day of dove season. The biggest difference is doves aren't a threat to little children playing in the front yard.

RoyGBiv wrote:OP.... I suggest that you ask the mods to delete this thread.
One word... "Premeditated"

Sorry for your trouble. Hopefully it gets resolved without having to kill a poorly owned animal.

I appreciate the reply. I don’t think “premeditated” would apply in this instance. I simply stated that there are a few people in this area that will protect themselves and their families from harm by man or animal.

Clay had no delusions that a pellet gun would kill a pit-bull. He was hoping that by stinging the dog, it would run off allowing his wife to get out of the truck and into the house.

As far as a dog surviving two shotgun blasts, I am sure it could happen, depending on the gauge and size of shot. The first two in my 12 ga. is 3” 000 buck. The rest are 00 buck. It is hard to imagine man or animal surviving the first two. I got this gun for my wife. I worked swing shift for years and she was by herself at night sometimes. We had prowlers for a while. The neighbor lady solved the problem. Shot him with a twenty gauge. He lived but lost a lung. He will have a little harder time snorting coke now.

I truly hope those people do what is necessary to contain and control their animals and we don’t have any more problems. My fear is for the little ones.

You know these are dogs, not people, and I will state that if a dog poses a lethal threat to me or my family I will stop the threat by whatever means I have. That is not premeditation, it is a promise. I love dogs I really really do and it would break my heart to have to kill one because the owners did not keep it put away or train it well, but I would not have my children put in mortal peril. American Staffordshire Terriers (the proper name for pit bulls I think) have incredible bite strength and can be exceedingly territorial. When not trained properly they can be very dangerous dogs.

mamabearCali wrote:You know these are dogs, not people, and I will state that if a dog poses a lethal threat to me or my family I will stop the threat by whatever means I have. That is not premeditation, it is a promise. I love dogs I really really do and it would break my heart to have to kill one because the owners did not keep it put away or train it well, but I would not have my children put in mortal peril. American Staffordshire Terriers (the proper name for pit bulls I think) have incredible bite strength and can be exceedingly territorial. When not trained properly they can be very dangerous dogs.

Mama, I agree with everything you said, except I see no need to qualify that as posing a "lethal threat". Any threat of harm is enough for me to put it down. There is no requirement for me to "take a bite" before defending myself. I do not need to waste time trying to evaluate whether the threat is deadly, serious, or merely minor. The OODA loop is quick with dogs and hesitating can get you bitten.

I also love dogs and am a long time dog owner. I used to show dogs in obedience trials many years ago. But I never confuse a dog with a human being when it comes to the value of a life.

Jumping Frog wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:You know these are dogs, not people, and I will state that if a dog poses a lethal threat to me or my family I will stop the threat by whatever means I have. That is not premeditation, it is a promise. I love dogs I really really do and it would break my heart to have to kill one because the owners did not keep it put away or train it well, but I would not have my children put in mortal peril. American Staffordshire Terriers (the proper name for pit bulls I think) have incredible bite strength and can be exceedingly territorial. When not trained properly they can be very dangerous dogs.

Mama, I agree with everything you said, except I see no need to qualify that as posing a "lethal threat". Any threat of harm is enough for me to put it down. There is no requirement for me to "take a bite" before defending myself. I do not need to waste time trying to evaluate whether the threat is deadly, serious, or merely minor. The OODA loop is quick with dogs and hesitating can get you bitten.

I also love dogs and am a long time dog owner. I used to show dogs in obedience trials many years ago. But I never confuse a dog with a human being when it comes to the value of a life.

Well if a dog is threatening to bite me it is a lethal threat. One word RABIES! Most dogs don't go out of their way to bite people, if a dog is, that means it is either rabid or extremely territorial and thus is a lethal threat.

74novaman wrote:2 shotgun blasts later, he finally decided he was bored with his chew toy and stopped attacking it.

Jack was running around like nothing was wrong. I'm sure they were using birdshot, but still..... Opened my eyes to the sort of abuse pits can take when they've got their blood up.

If you have to deal with them, be careful!

We used to have neighbors who had two of them. They had the chain in a tree with bite toy at the end of it thing going on. The dog would jump up and bite the toy and just hold on and swing for 10 to 20 minutes at a time shaking the crud out of it.

One summer I heard screaming from my sister out in our backyard. The dog had jumped the fence and was tearing apart my sisters miniature poodle. I ran outside and grabbed my PR24 on the way. I probably touched the ground twice. I gave it a couple of good taps on top of the head and he finally decided it was no longer fun and games to tear up the poodle. But then he was irritated and he saw me. He hesitated for second probably to clear his noggin from the ringing my previous taps had given him. Then the growl started coming and he started moving toward me... he was irritated now.

Well doom on him as thankfully he had given me enough time to really wind up and I swung for the fence and laid a baseball bat swing to his face. I managed to lift him up and throw him back with the blow. I guess then he decided that I wasn't worth the pain because he picked him self up and jumped back over the fence. I guess we are both lucky he did because I was going to try to stop the problem right there. The adrenalin was pumping so much I was going to beat that dog to death and I REALLY love dogs!

After that I loaded the 12 gauge up with 00 buck and kept it by the back door. About a year later we moved. The neighbor was retired PD so the cops wouldn't do anything and animal control was not about to cross the cops.

A little different scenario, but a NASCAR driver Jeremy Mayfield was just ordered by a judge to pay a $1M settlement to a postal carrier who was attacked by his dogs. He lives a mile off the road and has No Trespassing and Beware of Dogs signs http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-fr ... 36842.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the OP's neighbor being premeditated, it is no more premeditated than a CHL having a gun in case someone shows up and decides to attack them. I wouldn't call it premeditated, I would call it being prepared.

Keith B wrote:A little different scenario, but a NASCAR driver Jeremy Mayfield was just ordered by a judge to pay a $1M settlement to a postal carrier who was attacked by his dogs. He lives a mile off the road and has No Trespassing and Beware of Dogs signs http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-fr ... 36842.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the OP's neighbor being premeditated, it is no more premeditated than a CHL having a gun in case someone shows up and decides to attack them. I wouldn't call it premeditated, I would call it being prepared.

Interesting story, Keith. Unfortunately, Mayfield seems to have other problems. However, the story does point out the problem people face when they just want to be left alone. Guess he should have had a gated and locked fence to keep out any interlopers. The letter carrier should have left a notice in his box to pick up the package at the post office. I believe she made a serious mistake when she ignored the "no trespassing" and "Beware of Dogs" signs. Apparently that didn't mitigate his liability, however.

VoiceofReason wrote:I think the next time they show up, the problem may be solved permanently.

Keith B wrote: I wouldn't call it premeditated, I would call it being prepared.

I don't want to argue semantics here, but if I was a juror and you came to me with the first statement posted to an internet forum by Mr. Reason, it would give serious weight to the argument that Mr. Reason planned to kill the dogs the next time he saw them, regardless of whether the dogs, at the time of the shooting, posed an immediate threat to anyone.

We here all know that it is very unlikely that Mr. Reason actually intended to infer this, but I could make an easy argument against him if he's gonna give me this as ammunition.

Let me take it one small step further... Let's replace "dog" with "annoying neighbor".
Just changing a noun.... The quote would then become...

"I think the next time that annoying neighbor shows up, the problem may be solved permanently."

If that neighbor showed up, and was subsequently shot and killed by Mr. Reason, what would a jury say about that statement?

Just my read... I understand many would disagree. No problem with that. Peace.

Apologies for the offtopic...

RoyGBiv wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:I think the next time they show up, the problem may be solved permanently.

Keith B wrote: I wouldn't call it premeditated, I would call it being prepared.

I don't want to argue semantics here, but if I was a juror and you came to me with the first statement posted to an internet forum by Mr. Reason, it would give serious weight to the argument that Mr. Reason planned to kill the dogs the next time he saw them, regardless of whether the dogs, at the time of the shooting, posed an immediate threat to anyone.

We here all know that it is very unlikely that Mr. Reason actually intended to infer this, but I could make an easy argument against him if he's gonna give me this as ammunition.

Let me take it one small step further... Let's replace "dog" with "annoying neighbor".
Just changing a noun.... The quote would then become...

"I think the next time that annoying neighbor shows up, the problem may be solved permanently."

If that neighbor showed up, and was subsequently shot and killed by Mr. Reason, what would a jury say about that statement?

Just my read... I understand many would disagree. No problem with that. Peace.

Apologies for the offtopic...

mmmmmm----I (most of the time) am a reasonable person. I see a huge gulf of a difference between saying that about a dog and a person. Additionally the only way he would see the dog would likely be if they got out again---as the dogs have already shown they are not to be trusted loose. If I was on that jury I would ask why they person did not keep the dogs locked up.

But, but, those pit bulls are someone's children. Their family loves them! How can you say you are going to kill their loving animals? People need to keep their children in the house so they will not bother the dogs!

Anygunanywhere