Seeking advice on my first black rifle

[firefighter3217]

Eotech is the Holy Grail of red dot sights for black rifles.
But the Bushnell Holosight is the same thing with a plastic frame instead of aluminum, made by the same company.

What about the ACOG? That's the holy grail there, and priced accordingly.

I dunno about that statement... they're certainly sweet and I've got one... but for close quarters, honestly an EOtech would be better... For stuff where you're goign between 400 meters and really close, the ACOG takes it with the drop markings on it, and I love it at night... Honestly, it's very subjective to the use you have in mind.

Oh- the the OP-- I've got an RRA that I LOVE. Very similar to the M&P in the 1st page. By now I've swapped out the hand guard for quad rails, added a broomstick handle, put the ACOG on it (and took off the removable carry handle, which I DEFINITELY recommend keeping on hand... you never know when optics will fail), and a surefire light...

Only catch is that the day I decided to remove the creep from my trigger I messed up the 2 stage trigger it had... oops... but now it's got about a 5 pound pull and ZERO creep, and a very crisp break, so I guess all is not lost...makes for much more accurate shooting, but less of the unique 2 stage that came with it (the first pull was about 8 pounds, then the rest were about 3 pounds until you let off the trigger fully... it was really sweet for shots after the first... you released partway until you felt a click, then pulled again. Letting off allt he way set it back tot he heavier trigger pull)

In any case, I didn't look at where the OP was from, but if you're near the Stephenville, Brownwood, or Fort Worth area, I'd be more than happy to let you shoot mine to get a feel for the things you like and don't like...

[MojoTexas]

Well, I changed my mind. I didn't buy a Smith & Wesson M&P. I didn't get a "normal" AR.

I bit the bullet and got a Bushmaster M4 with a gas-piston system. I like the idea of lower recoil and cleaner action. It was a bit over budget but SHHHHH! (The wife doesn't know the difference...)

The sales guy at Cheaper Than Dirt Guns said that he felt I was getting a better rifle than the S&W M&P15PS. Was he telling the truth? Irregardless, I made the plunge and now I'm truly ready for the Zombie Apocalypse.

Here are some pics:

[Pawpaw]

AR-15's don't have any recoil. They just sort of "vibrate"!

I'll be out at Top Gun about 9:00 in the morning. Grab some ammo & join me!

[MojoTexas]

AR-15's don't have any recoil. They just sort of "vibrate"!

I'll be out at Top Gun about 9:00 in the morning. Grab some ammo & join me!

I just saw this...was busy today, although I drove within 5 miles of Top Gun today on my way up to my parent's house in Savoy and back. (Our son is spending the night with Grammy and Pappaw.)

Definitely have to meet up there some other weekend. I'm anxious to put some rounds down-range!

I stripped and cleaned the rifle today, in preparation for taking it shooting. I also dressed it up a little by putting a new rear pistol grip on it, as well as adding a bipod. I had fun when I removed the old pistol grip...I didn't know about the safety detent and spring going into the handle. I saw the spring right away but I thought I was never going to find that detent. I did, though, and managed to get it all put back together. Hopefully it'll still go bang the first time I take it shooting. :-)

[Pawpaw]

I kept thinking you just might show up.

I got some assitance from another shooter to sight in my RMR, then I dialed-in the irons. Then I experimented with several different brands & weights of ammo trying to find what my rifle likes best and fine tuned the ACOG to the best accuracy with it.

Then I proceeded to shoot until I was so tired my accuracy faded. All-in-all a very good range session. Top Gun is a bare bones setup right now, but everyone is as friendly and personable as can be.

Yes, we'll have to try it another day.

[NcongruNt]

It's a solution to a problem that only existed with improperly prepared batches of military ammo during the Vietnam war. The AR design is very simple and very elegant.

Other ar gurus will be along shortly but I don't think there's any reason to get a piston system. You're adding weight and fixing something that frankly isn't broken.

All you anti piston guys are funny. Having run a piston gun and a DI gun through days and cases of ammo in training classes, I love the piston. Runs cooler and cleaner. If you look at failures in the AR/M4 platform it is usually from dirt and debris. Mitigating those factors would serve to INCREASE reliability, not decrease it.

For most casual uses DI vs Piston would be personal preference. The difference is further less pronounced when you take select fire out of the equation. That said, my piston gun is my first choice for a working gun. Most people that I have discussed the issue with have never heavily used a piston AR - they just repeat some heavily repeated mantra that they read on ARF or M4C. The piston ARs that are out there were made famous by the top tier, well respected, companies: POF, LWRC, LMT, SCAR, HK, et al. Bushmaster and others soon followed suit.

For the OP's needs, this discussion seems to be a moot point, however, as any respectable piston gun is out of the original budget. I don't recommend building your own AR for the first gun, headspacing can be a pain. I think the M&P (specifically MOE is one of the best out of the box guns for the price).


Oh and to be more conflicting, I prefer the Aimpoint to the Eotech. Battery life is way better, and my eyes just like it better. Can't go wrong either way. The Eotech reticle has a great standoff feature for close in surgical shooting. I run an Aimpoint Comp ML3, but I'm really leaning towards an Aimpoint T-1 Micro. Again - that is a later discussion.

I'm not anti-piston. I just don't see the point of modifying the AR design to be a piston gun when there are plenty of .223/5.56 guns that have piston systems as part of their design. Maybe I got tired of hearing "OMG DIRTY GAS SYSTEMS AR FAIL, NEEDS A PISTON LIKE THE INDESTRUCTIBLE AK" by people who didn't have ARs but were happy to point out their perceived deficiencies from the sidelines. I bought into that nonsense, but went ahead and built a standard AR after I started questioning the validity of the argument. After looking at how the design works and actually using it, I am quite happy and impressed with it. I'm not criticizing the piston system itself, but rather the horde of people who described the DI as made of fail because of some mob hype about a gun they never used.

From my understanding, using a piston-driven AR means that you're locked into your specific vendor, because everyone's piston systems are different. There's something to be said for a standardized platform.

I don't put tens of thousands of rounds through my rifle between cleanings, and I would venture to say that most people don't. With a piston system you are adding parts and complexity to the rifle. It's not just one part. You're replacing a single piece (gas tube) with a gas chamber, piston, rod, spring, and some retaining parts. Those parts are new points of potential failure. A gas tube isn't going to wear out, but moving mechanical parts will. As you stated, the difference between DI and piston systems is a preference for "casual users", which I would venture to say describes nearly everyone. Certainly, someone on a budget of $1000 is going to be a casual user. Select fire shouldn't even come into the equation in this discussion, because a piston-driven select-fire AR is a non-existent option for a civilian.

To the OP, congratulations on your rifle. I hope you enjoy it thoroughly.

[Texas_Tactical]

Well, I changed my mind. I didn't buy a Smith & Wesson M&P. I didn't get a "normal" AR.

I bit the bullet and got a Bushmaster M4 with a gas-piston system. I like the idea of lower recoil and cleaner action. It was a bit over budget but SHHHHH! (The wife doesn't know the difference...)

The sales guy at Cheaper Than Dirt Guns said that he felt I was getting a better rifle than the S&W M&P15PS. Was he telling the truth? Irregardless, I made the plunge and now I'm truly ready for the Zombie Apocalypse.

Here are some pics:

Nice rifle! I'm sure you'll love it!

As an M&P15 owner as of 7 days ago I can attest it's a great feeling.

[Beiruty]

next time if someone is going to Top gun let me know. I hope by then, my rifle is sighted and ready for long range duties.

[LongHairedRedneck]

Having shot both DI and Piston AR style rifles. I prefer the Piston rifle, cooler and cleaner running than the DI. Also lots easier in the clean up department with a Piston rifle. Having shot both before purchasing my AR I decided to get the Sig516. It's now sporting a EoTech 512, Troy Sights, LaRue vertical grip and Surefire with LaRue mount.

Nice AR and prepare to fend off the DI masses that insist their system is better

[MojoTexas]

FYI, I finally took the rifle to the range this weekend (Bullet Trap in Plano). Love, love, love it!

I definitely need an upgrade to the iron sights. The rifle range at the Bullet Trap is always very dark, and I had a hard time seeing the black front sight in the gloom.

This is a pic I took when I brought the target in to look at my progress.


Close up of the target. Not great, but I'm sure it'll improve with practice.