Robbers Fatally Shoot Denny's Employee - New Mexico

[stevie_d_64]

Albuquerque Police Try To Diffuse SWAT Situation

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ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- Police in Albuquerque said a restaurant employee has been killed after several armed suspects attempted a takeover-style robbery at a packed Denny's Restaurant.

Police spokeswoman Officer Nadine Hamby said "multiple" armed suspects rushed the northwest Albuquerque restaurant at about 9:30 a.m. Saturday. As many as 100 people were inside.

A Saturday morning breakfast for 60 restaurant guests quickly turned into a nightmare.

Police said a group of masked men and possibly women stormed into the popular diner and began shooting.

Witnesses said us one of the men had a machine gun , the others fired handguns at random.

One of the guests inside was the elderly mother of city councilor Ken Sanchez.

Sanchez was on his way to meet his mother for breakfast when he got a frantic phone call.

"She said she saw men walking in masks and the firing started and she just panicked," Sanchez said.

He said his mother did what the other customers did, they hid under tables.

"She is so shaken up right now. She's in tears right now and it's really hard to know the length of time this took place," Sanchez said.

People inside told police one of the gunmen slipped on the floor inside the kitchen.

When a 19-year old female employee made a comment about it, the gunmen shot her, killing her. Her identity was not released.

"You are afraid to go places because so many things like this are happening," said Connie Mendez.

After that shooting, police said the suspects fled to a mobile home park a few miles away.

Two people have been detained, but Hamby said it is unclear if they are robbery suspects.

A police tactical team surrounded a northwest Albuquerque home where other possible suspects are believed to have fled.

Hamby said detectives have more than 60 witnesses to interview, and not all saw the same thing. Witnesses reported seeing from two to six suspects.

[stevie_d_64]

Before anyone decides that they would have saved the day...Think about a few things...

- Every bullet that leaves "your" gun has a lawyer on it.

- Sometimes it is better to be a witness than a corpse.

- No matter how good you think you are, there will always be someone out there more lucky than you.

- Ask yourself this question: "Am I prepared to die?"

I don't like to be the naysayer, and I believe all of us are well versed, skilled and prepared...But again this is one of those nightmare senarios where there are no winners, only losers...

It is difficult to determine what and how you should react...All I know is that even though we carry for lawful self defensive purposes, this is one of those tough calls...

Reinforces my unconcious habit of always looking to put my back up against the wall, strongside carry away from normal view...Sometimes the wife doesn't remember, nor does she think about it either...

[DEADEYE1964]

Before anyone decides that they would have saved the day...Think about a few things...

- Every bullet that leaves "your" gun has a lawyer on it.

- Sometimes it is better to be a witness than a corpse.

- No matter how good you think you are, there will always be someone out there more lucky than you.

- Ask yourself this question: "Am I prepared to die?"

I don't like to be the naysayer, and I believe all of us are well versed, skilled and prepared...But again this is one of those nightmare senarios where there are no winners, only losers...

It is difficult to determine what and how you should react...All I know is that even though we carry for lawful self defensive purposes, this is one of those tough calls...

Reinforces my unconcious habit of always looking to put my back up against the wall, strongside carry away from normal view...Sometimes the wife doesn't remember, nor does she think about it either...

Very true, it is very sad that someone lost their life but if a CHL would have reacted to this, it probably would have turned out worse. A packed diner, 6 gunmen and bullets flying, I would hate to just sit there but in this case, being a real good witness would probably be the best option.

[Oldgringo]

with both of the above.

I, too, prefer to sit wih my back to the wall but with strong side available; however, I doubt that I'd try to outgun a half dozen terrorists while 60 people, including my party/wife, are screaming and diving for cover.

[WildBill]

In any real scenario, the outcome of this situation wouldn't have been ideal. Sometimes the Good Guys are just out numbered.

[joe817]

In any real scenario, the outcome of this situation wouldn't have been ideal. Sometimes the Good Guys are just out numbered.

Packed diner....6 gunman....SIX??? Did you read some of the comments in the article? I did not realize New Mexico didn't have capital punishment.

I agree with other poster....better to be an observant and live witness than a dead hero. Odds were not good in any S.D. scenario I could think of. This is a tragedy and I pray for the girl who lost her life to those terrorists, and her family.

[frplf]

Very Scary. My wife and I ate breakfast in that resturant two weeks ago on Saturday morning. I was sitting in a booth, that would have put me behind persons at the register.

Pat

XD45
P11
LCP (with me that day)

[frazzled]

Six? We don't expect this sort of thing normally because the take on hitting a Denny's is pretty low-come on its Dennys.
If you have six guys can't you aim a little higher (pardon the pun) and hit a bank or something?

I hope they are all caught.

[Abraham]

All they wanted was to shoot people?

What was the motive of the shooters? Robbing all the patrons one by one? Or, was it that once they shot someone they bolted?

Also, if you're there and it looks like you or your loved ones are targeted do you still just sit there?

Are we saying those who wouldn't try to defend themselves or their loved ones think that going to the trouble of getting a CHL and carrying is useful only when things are perfectly lined up just so...or as in war, sometimes the odds are against you and you still do what you can to save your bacon or your loved ones.

I'm not speaking of being rash or overlooking innocent bystanders either.

What am I missing in what appears to be a kind of group passivity when confronted with a very bad situation?

[joe817]

All they wanted was to shoot people?

What was the motive of the shooters? Robbing all the patrons one by one? Or, was it that once they shot someone they bolted?
Also, if you're there and it looks like you or your loved ones are targeted do you still just sit there?
Are we saying those who wouldn't try to defend themselves or their loved ones think that going to the trouble of getting a CHL and carrying is useful only when things are perfectly lined up just so...or as in war, sometimes the odds are against you and you still do what you can to save your bacon or your loved ones.
I'm not speaking of being rash or overlooking innocent bystanders either.
What am I missing in what appears to be a kind of group passivity when confronted with a very bad situation?

Abraham, your points well taken. However, please remember that the Denny's was packed with 60-100 people, and 6 BG's. The chances of hitting one or more unarmed customers are far greater than hitting one gunman....in addition the CHL in taking a shot...whether he hits a BG or not, is certainly guaranteed to escalate the situation for the remaining 5 gunman to open fire on the packed Denny's and hiting many, many customers and creating a true bloodbath on the innocents.

Condsidering the no-win situation of the CHL drawing down on one or more of the gunman, the best of a worst case scenario, IMHO, would be to be as good a witness that one could be in this terrifying situation.

Had there not been as many people in the restaurant, like 10 people, one could only speculate what a CHL would do. But it was full to capacity. Just my $.02 worth.

[Purplehood]

A few points I would consider in the mayhem:

Was I aware that there were more than one BG as a customer in the Denny's from whatever vantage point I had? If not, I might have tried to do something about it.

If I were clear that there were more than 2 or 3 BG's, my best guess is that I would have had all loved-ones hit the deck and take advantage of any cover or concealment available.

If a BG directly approached my group of loved-ones and appeared to be ready to harm anyone, I probably would have taken a shot from whatever cowering position I currently occupied, regardless of the consequences. If that never happened, I probably would have refrained from doing anything other than trying to keep on eye on the situation as it unfolded.

[Locke]

The only wise thing to do here is look for an opportunity to flee while you do whatever they say and try to be inconspicuous. With six gunmen involved acting any other way could get a lot of people killed or injured. Now if the facts were different and it looked like these were not simply robbers but jihadists bent on martyrdom and killing Americans then taking an active self defense role might make sense.

This takeover style robbery seems to be getting more common which is concerning.

[frazzled]

1. I am not saying anyone but the BG's did anything wrong.
2. The concept of 4-6 people robbing a Denny's is boggling and way out of what I had considered previously. Unless you're running in to hit the till only, it would take substantial time and in the era where babies have cell phones the timeline is extremely short before the police come. Now that I think about it the till would be the only thing I'd target logically.
3. In a restaurant situation I am not looking to take the bad guys down. If there is an opening I am trying to get my family out of there through the back or someplace defensible (restroom or such). If I can't I can't. Its situation specific, bad guy specific, time specific.

Now that I think about it the only Dennys I know is a kill zone with one recognizable entrance in. and the kitchen open. Not good.

[Mithras61]

Just so y'all know, "take-over robberies" (as these things are called) are becoming increasingly common. I believe they started this sort of thing in CA, and its starting to make its was eastward.

I don't think anyone aside from the BGs did anything specifically wrong in the instance cited (although I don't think I'd mouth off to one if he slipped and fell near me - not that it justifies in any way his shooting her), but it appears that there's an increasing likelihood that a similar situation could develop just about anywhere. It may be time to think about and train for how to handle this type of thing before it happens in a restaurant near you. Once it happens, its too late to start thinking about it.

As for me personally, I avoid restaurants as much as I can for reasons unrelated to these things, but when going to one is unavoidable, I tend to go to the ones frequented by police or with off-duty police working there. It doesn't make it impossible that the BGs will try and take over, but it does make it less likely.

Other than that, I'll try to get my family down under concealment as much as possible and do what I can to be a good witness. I don't carry because I'm bullet proof, but rather to provide a means to defend myself and my family from one or two thugs, not from a gang. I simply don't carry the firepower (or the authority from all those other folks) to take on so many at once.

[A-R]

Great posts. And agree with the majority here that if you are a lone CHL in a crowded restaurant invaded by multiple bad guys, your best bet is to flee or become as "invisible" as possible until the nightmare ends.

One point I haven't seen brought up yet is whether in New Mexico at a Denny's you would even be allowed to have your gun on you in the first place. I'm starting to study up on New Mexico and Arizona CHL laws (planning trip through both in a few weeks) and I believe CHL carry is illegal in any place that sells any alchohol for on-premises consumption. I'm not sure as I wouldn't go to a Denny's have a beer, but don't many Denny's/IHOP type places have beer or even cheap wine on the menu?