Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

Discussion of other state's CHL's & reciprocity

Moderators: carlson1, Keith B

Post Reply
User avatar

Topic author
ELB
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 8128
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#1

Post by ELB »

Via John Lott http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/01/e ... y-law.html


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti ... 60602/1008
Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits
January 6, 2008

By DAWSON BELL

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER

Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.

But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics.

The incidence of violent crime in Michigan in the six years since the law went into effect has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, also has declined.

More than 155,000 Michiganders -- about one in every 65 -- are now authorized to carry loaded guns as they go about their everyday affairs, according to Michigan State Police records.

About 25,000 people had CCW permits in Michigan before the law changed in 2001.

"I think the general consensus out there from law enforcement is that things were not as bad as we expected," said Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin, cochair of the legislative committee for the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. "There are problems with gun violence. But ... I think we can breathe a sigh of relief that what we anticipated didn't happen."

John Lott, a visiting professor at the University of Maryland who has done extensive research on the role of firearms in American society, said the results in Michigan since the law changed don't surprise him.

Academic studies of concealed weapons laws that generally allow citizens to obtain permits have shown different results, Lott said. About two-thirds of the studies suggest the laws reduce crime; the rest show no net effect, he said.

But no peer-reviewed study has ever shown that crime increases when jurisdictions enact changes like those put in place by the Legislature and then-Gov. John Engler in 2000, Lott said.

In Michigan and elsewhere (liberal permitting is the rule in about 40 states), those who seek CCW permits, get training and pay licensing fees tend to be "the kind of people who don't break laws," Lott said.

Nationally, the rate of CCW permits being revoked is very low, he said. State Police reports in Michigan indicate that 2,178 permits have been revoked or suspended since 2001, slightly more than 1% of those issued.

Another State Police report found that 175 Michigan permit holders were convicted of a crime, most of them nonviolent, requiring revocation or suspension of their permits between July 1, 2005, and June 30, 2006.

But even if more armed citizens have not wreaked havoc, some critics of Michigan's law chafe at how it was passed: against stiff opposition in a lame duck legislative session and attached to an appropriation that nullified efforts at repeal by referendum.

Kenneth Levin, a West Bloomfield physician, was one of those critics. In a letter to the Free Press in July 2001, he referred to the "inevitable first victim of road or workplace rage as a result of this law."

Last month, Levin said he suspected "it probably hasn't turned out as bad as I thought. I don't think I was wrong, but my worst fears weren't realized."

But the manner in which the law was enacted was nevertheless "sneaky" and "undemocratic," Levin said.

Other opponents remain convinced that it has contributed to an ongoing epidemic of firearms-related death and destruction.

Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.

The most publicized recent case came early in 2007, when a 40-year-old Macomb County woman fired from her vehicle toward the driver of a truck she claimed had cut her off on I-94. Bernadette Headd was convicted of assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

Hamilton said that even if gun violence has ebbed, it remains pervasive, tragic and unnecessary. At the least, a more liberal concealed weapons law means there are more guns in homes and cars and on the street, she said, and more potential for disaster.

Advocates for the law argue that there is nothing equivocal about the experience of the CCW permit holders who have warded off threats and, in a few instances, saved themselves from harm.

In September, a 36-year-old Troy man killed an armed 18-year-old assailant who, with three other suspects, attempted to steal his car outside Detroit Police headquarters.

Michelle Reurink, 40, a consultant in Lansing, got her CCW permit last year, not so much because she felt an imminent threat to her well-being, she said, but because she's a strong believer in the Constitution's Second Amendment -- the right to bear arms.

"The primary reason I got it is because I feel like I have the right to have it," she said.

Still, she doesn't often carry her gun during her daily routine, though she takes it when she and her husband go on their boat, she said.

Having the license and a handgun makes her feel more secure in her home (where no one needs a CCW license to have a gun), she said. She also feels more secure because of the required training, including self-defense lessons, she took as part of the license application.

Mark Cortis of Royal Oak, who conducts concealed weapons license training and sits on the Oakland County gun board, said he believes the benefits of an armed citizenry are evident in small ways almost every day, as permit holders deter trouble and live more confidently.

"The police just can't protect you," Cortis said. "If you have to call 911, it's probably already too late."

Contact DAWSON BELL at 313-222-6604 or dbell@freepress.com.
I never knew "Michiganders" was what you call people from Michigan. :lol:

elb
USAF 1982-2005
____________

dukalmighty
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 822
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:45 am

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#2

Post by dukalmighty »

[quote][/quotThe police just can't protect you," Cortis said. "If you have to call 911, it's probably already too late."
e]Ya think :fire :fire
It is said that if you line up all the cars in the world end-to-end, someone would be stupid enough to try to pass them
User avatar

WildBill
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#3

Post by WildBill »

Kenneth Levin, a West Bloomfield physician, was one of those critics. In a letter to the Free Press in July 2001, he referred to the "inevitable first victim of road or workplace rage as a result of this law."

Last month, Levin said he suspected "it probably hasn't turned out as bad as I thought. I don't think I was wrong, but my worst fears weren't realized."

But the manner in which the law was enacted was nevertheless "sneaky" and "undemocratic," Levin said.

Other opponents remain convinced that it has contributed to an ongoing epidemic of firearms-related death and destruction.

Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.
It's amazing that some people can't admit that they were wrong.
NRA Endowment Member
User avatar

KC5AV
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 2118
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:24 pm
Location: Marshall

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#4

Post by KC5AV »

It must be a conspiracy to cover up all the blood running in the streets.

-John
NRA lifetime member

frankie_the_yankee
Banned
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 2173
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: Smithville, TX

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#5

Post by frankie_the_yankee »

Notice how the LEO spokesman basically admitted that things had worked out better than he had thought? I suspect this is just a consequence of the fact that LEO's by the nature of their jobs have to keep themselves planted in the real world.

In contrast, look at the remarks from the spokeswoman for the Million Mom March, an organization whose very name is based on a fantasy. (Like, how many "moms" are actually members, anyway? A million? I doubt it.) She doesn't need to live in the real world, and quite obviously doesn't bother to try.

So she has no problem making the ridiculous assertion that:
..... she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.
As if overall "gun violence" is supposed to be up, but somehow this is not reflected in the official statistics? And that CCW permit holders are somehow getting away with "incidents" that are not being reported?

Of course here she may simply trying to be deliberately deceptive. One wonders what she characterizes as an "incident" for instance, especially those that are not being reported. (Like maybe they are not being reported because the CCW permit holder did nothing wrong and violated no law?)

The bottom line: MI CCW's are up. MI violent crime is down. MI citizens are better off in defending themselves against the violent criminal element.

And the gun grabbers are lying and deceiving as usual, proving that they don't really care about violent crime. They care about banning guns.
Ahm jus' a Southern boy trapped in a Yankee's body
User avatar

M9FAN
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:17 pm
Location: Pearland, TX

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#6

Post by M9FAN »

frankie_the_yankee wrote:The bottom line: MI CCW's are up. MI violent crime is down. MI citizens are better off in defending themselves against the violent criminal element.
Having been born in MI (with relatives still living there), I welcome this news! :clapping:
"Upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all." - Alexander the Great

Corona
Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:42 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits

#7

Post by Corona »

M9FAN wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:The bottom line: MI CCW's are up. MI violent crime is down. MI citizens are better off in defending themselves against the violent criminal element.
Having been born in MI (with relatives still living there), I welcome this news! :clapping:
Ditto brother. P.S. do you miss coneys as much as I do?
-Corona
Post Reply

Return to “Other States”