Travelling to Florida

[kidder014]

I will be making a business trip to Florida in a few weeks, and, being that I have only had my CHL a few weeks, I've obviously never travelled with it yet.

What should I expect at the airports? Yes, I've read the regulations, and the "how-to's" but I'm just curious what to expect while checking a firearm at the airport.

Also, I haven't had a chance yet to look up Florida concealed carry laws. I know the TX license is recognized, but are there any differences in the law that I need to be aware of?

Thank you ahead of time for your comments!

[Excaliber]

Go to handgunlaw.us. Click the "All State Laws" link in the menu on the left side and select "Florida." That should give you all the info you need for that state, and for all the other states as well.

[hirundo82]

TSA regulations for flying with guns

I've flown with guns several times, and never found it to be much of a hassle. I lock the gun(s) inside a hard-sided case like the regultions say (I use a Pelican case) and then lock the case with a padlock (this should not be a TSA lock). I then put the case inside my luggage and secure the luggage with a TSA lock. I pack the ammo (in the factory box) in a separate compartment of my luggage--I know TSA regulations say it is okay to have it in the locked gun case but in my experience airline personnel tend to not know this, so it is less of a hassle to pack it separately to begin with than to have to put it elsewhere or argue over the TSA regulations.

When I am checking in, I tell the airline personnel "I have unloaded firearms in my luggage that I need to declare." They usually want me to open the case to show they are unloaded; usually seeeing the empty magazine well is sufficient. I then sign the "Unloaded Firearms Declaration" tag that they give me, and put it where they tell me to put it. It is technically supposed to go on the outside of the locked container, but sometimes they want it locked inside the case.

They then may want you to walk your luggage over to the x-ray machine with them and stick around until TSA has cleared the bag--this usually takes 5-10 minutes. It may take longer at some airports--it is my experience that TSA at Washington-Dulles always wants to open a bag with firearms and swab it for explosive residue.

The experience does vary from airport to airport. The larger, more urban airports are more likely to make the process more of a hassle, although Houston Hobby has been the best in my experience. I think Texas airports tend to be pretty good in general--I once had a TSA screener at Bush Intercontinental compliment me on my guns. I've never flown to or from Florida with guns, so I can't tell you about there, but Florida in general tends to be pretty pro-gun.

[AggieMM]

If you're interested, read my "travel" log from my Austin to Tampa trip in February

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=13988" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But one thing I noticed about Florida is to stay out of all Bars, and this includes the bar rooms at restaurants. They don't have a 51%, they have all Bars off limits.

Ryan

[pt145ss]

The best advice I can give is to be flexible. Although the rules are essentially the same (As far as the TSA is concerned) procedure might be slightly different.

Take my recent trip to Michigan for example. Leaving Austin, I had my unloaded gun packed in a hard case and locked with TSA locks (ammo was in factory box in the same case). I notified the airline clerk at the counter. She had me sign a red paper (which just says that I affirm that the gun is unloaded…and blah blah blah) and had me place it on top of the gun case. She never asked me to open it or anything and then she sent me (unescorted) to the TSA station. At the TSA station the guy opened my bag and searched every pocket with the bomb sniff stuff….but he never even opened my gun case…it took about 15 minutes.

Leaving Michigan to head home, I had my gun packed the same way. This time when I declared my firearm at the airline counter, the clerk had me open the gun case. She then asked me if it was unloaded and then had me sign the red affirmation card. She had me put that red card inside the gun case (unlike Austin). At this point, she escorted me over to the TSA station and waited with me until the TSA agent told her that it was ok for her to leave. This time the TSA agent opened gun case and ensured that it was properly packed…he closed it, locked it, and put it on the conveyer belt…he did not search any other part of my bag.

Talking to both TSA aganets people traveling with guns occurs quite frequently. However, they see more people traveling with hunting rifles and shotguns as opposed to CCW pistols.

[FlynJay]

Take my recent trip to Michigan for example. Leaving Austin, I had my unloaded gun packed in a hard case and locked with TSA locks (ammo was in factory box in the same case). I notified the airline clerk at the counter. She had me sign a red paper (which just says that I affirm that the gun is unloaded…and blah blah blah) and had me place it on top of the gun case. She never asked me to open it or anything and then she sent me (unescorted) to the TSA station. At the TSA station the guy opened my bag and searched every pocket with the bomb sniff stuff….but he never even opened my gun case…it took about 15 minutes.

You are NOT to use TSA locks on the hard-sided case. The whole point is that you are the only one with the key to the case. This makes it more difficult for airport personnel to steal your gun. Anyone can get a key for the TSA locks.

"A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you."

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/ ... _1666.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ddcarter3]

I have flown Southwest and Continental.
Southwest has a card you will need to fill out. If you ask, they will give you a few for the return and future flights (so you can have them filled out prior to the airport). They have always put the card on top of the locked (NON TSA) case. You must physically show them it is not loaded, then lock the case. Sometime they will escort you to TSA X-Ray, sometimes just watch you. Make sure either you or the Agent tells TSA you have a declared firearm in the suitcase.
Continental will hand you a form to sign and put a sicker on the form with the rest of the info. At IAH they put the declaration form inside the locked case. This is wrong. However, I don't argue, just comply. In Wichita, KS they put it on the outside of the case.
I agree with hirundo82 about TEXAS airports being familiar with the regs. It really is not a hassle.
Funny thing, Southwest will allow you to travel with loaded magazines as long as the are in the own soft case and separated. Continental will not. Ammo must be in the factory box.
I always go to the counter where you can change flights rather than the e-ticket kiosks.

[kidder014]

Followup:

Upon arriving at DFW airport, I informed the clerk I needed to declare an unloaded firearm. She pulled the notecard from the drawer, had me sign it, and told me to place it on top of the locked gun case. I did so. She never asked to see the gun or anything else beyond that. She then pointed me in the direction of the TSA office, and told me to take my luggage to them.

I handed the TSA agent my baggage, and told him I had declared an unloaded firearm. He opened my bag, asked for the key to the lock on the gun case, opened the gun case, checked the gun, placed the notecard inside the gun case, and then locked everything back up. When he brought me back my key, he told me "For future reference, the notecard should be INSIDE the gun case with the gun." I told him ok, and he cleared the bag.

All in all, it took about 10 minutes of my time, and really wasn't a hassle at all... If only I could say the same about my return trip.

Returning from MCO, I informed the clerk of the gun. I signed the card. She told me she did not even want me to open my luggage at all (she wasn't comfortable with guns, which I completely understand), and then she escourted me to the TSA screening area, with my luggage in one hand and the notecard in the other. We got to TSA, she informed the agent I had declared a gun, she handed him my luggage, and then handed me the notecard and walked away. I told the TSA agent I still needed to put the notecard with the gun, however he refused to allow me to open the luggage at all. I asked him what I should do with the declaration card, and he told me to put it in the front flap of the luggage, which I complied. He took the luggage, opened it, requested the key for the gun case, opened it, and then asked me why I had not declared the gun at the counter. I told him I DID, and reminded him that he had just told me to put the declaration in the front flap of the luggage. He informed me that I did not follow proper policy with declaring the gun, and that I should "hope all goes well" with the screening process of my luggage.... at this point I was simply like what the heck???? But, not wanting to argue with him or make a scene, I simply said ok. He locked everything up, and gave me back my keys.

I reported the incident to the TSA supervisor at the security checkpoint, who instructed me to fill out a comment card, which I did.

My luggage arrived back safe and sound at DFW.

I definately noticed that there does not seem to be a "standard" across the board, and different airports seem to handle the situation differently. Aside from my little incident at MCO, I had a great trip.

[Excaliber]

I fly a lot, both with and without guns in checked baggage.

When declaring a gun, I find that I often have to tell the ticket agent what the procedure is. Some of them will otherwise just put your bag on the belt with no declaration card inside and no notification to TSA. This happened to me this weekend when flying Continental out of DFW. I had to refuse to let the bag go and demand to see a supervisor to get it handled properly. If you let them just put your bag on the belt, you can be sure neither you nor your luggage will make your flight when the apparently undeclared gun shows up on x-ray and the LEO's come looking for the guy it belongs to. If the agent appears confused and doesn't know what to do, always ask to speak to a supervisor. They are usually well versed in the procedure and can straighten things out pretty quickly.

When flying with a gun, leave LOTS of extra time. You will have to go through the line at the service counter to declare the gun with an agent, and unless you've got elite flyer status, that can take quite a while. I suggest being at the ticket counter at least 2 hours prior to flight time to avoid having to make a mad dash to make your flight.

The airline you fly and their checked baggage handling procedures also make a difference. Some will go through the declaration process and escort you to the TSA screening point. This usually goes fairly quickly. Others do not have access to the screening point, which is in the basement in some airports. In that case, you will have to wait for a TSA agent to be called to meet you at an inspection counter. This process can easily take 30 - 45 minutes.

Most TSA folks I've dealt with are much more knowledgeable than the airline ticket agents and take care of their end efficiently. They aren't allowed to touch the gun, but they may ask you to show them the empty magazines, empty magazine well, and empty chamber. I take the magazines out of the gun and put a plastic chamber flag in the breech to give a visual indication that there are no cartridges present.

Ammo should be transported in the original packaging and secured with rubber bands or tape. The reason is that if the rounds fall out of the box due to the rough handling baggage receives, your baggage becomes noncompliant and TSA must make a decision to either confiscate the ammo and do a whole bunch of paperwork, or go fishing for each loose round in your luggage and put them all back in the box. You don't want to put them through this aggravation, and if this happens there's a real good chance your bag won't make it onto the same plane you'll be on. This brings up a whole host of other issues about how you and the bag can be reunited at your destination. A little rubber band or tape prevention goes a long way to make for uneventful travel.

[bdickens]

You could just drive and save all that hassle.

[Excaliber]

You could just drive and save all that hassle.

Yup, I could, but I couldn't see as many people or be in as many places in a given time as I can by flying.

For me, a 4 hour drive is the dividing line for business - 4 hours or less, and I drive. 4+ hours I fly - unless I can work in some fun sidetrips by driving.

[kidder014]

Most TSA folks I've dealt with are much more knowledgeable than the airline ticket agents and take care of their end efficiently. They aren't allowed to touch the gun, but they may ask you to show them the empty magazines, empty magazine well, and empty chamber. I take the magazines out of the gun and put a plastic chamber flag in the breech to give a visual indication that there are no cartridges present.

Interesting... someone should inform the TSA agent that inspected my bags in MCO of this detail. He had no problem handling my pistol, while I stood behind the barricade and watched. The agent at DFW picked it up with tongs, and inspected it that way, but the agent in MCO didn't bother with the tongs at all. I was surprised he actually took the time to put on latex gloves.

[Excaliber]

Most TSA folks I've dealt with are much more knowledgeable than the airline ticket agents and take care of their end efficiently. They aren't allowed to touch the gun, but they may ask you to show them the empty magazines, empty magazine well, and empty chamber. I take the magazines out of the gun and put a plastic chamber flag in the breech to give a visual indication that there are no cartridges present.

Interesting... someone should inform the TSA agent that inspected my bags in MCO of this detail. He had no problem handling my pistol, while I stood behind the barricade and watched. The agent at DFW picked it up with tongs, and inspected it that way, but the agent in MCO didn't bother with the tongs at all. I was surprised he actually took the time to put on latex gloves.

Their rules say they're not to actually handle it, and the TSA agent I worked with on Sunday confirmed that again. However, the implementation of this rule is spotty at best, and I've had curious agents handle the guns at least as often as not. If they go to pick it up, I ask them if they are qualified to inspect firearms for safety, and offer to demonstrate that it is unloaded for them. If they insist on handling it, I figure they can do whatever makes them happy as long as they don't damage the gun. To do otherwise would probably result in a lot of unhappiness and a missed flight. This approach has worked pretty well for me so far, and I haven't had any really bad experiences on the TSA side of the process.

Another thing to remember is that the metal box you lock the gun in should have a key that only you retain (not a TSA bypassable lock) and the luggage it's contained in should have the TSA lock on it. That way, if the bag is opened again after the initial inspection, it can be done without cutting off a lock and there is no direct access to the gun. The firearms declaration tag should be placed inside the bag on the outside of the metal storage box to show the gun has been declared. I also ask the TSA agent to place an "inspected baggage" notice along with it so if it is opened later (which hasn't happened to me yet), there shouldn't be any need for anyone to go through the bag again. The inspecting agent usually also marks the luggage routing tag on the outside with some symbol specific to the airport that lets other inspectors know what is inside and that it has been checked.

[kidder014]

Another thing to remember is that the metal box you lock the gun in should have a key that only you retain (not a TSA bypassable lock) and the luggage it's contained in should have the TSA lock on it. That way, if the bag is opened again after the initial inspection, it can be done without cutting off a lock and there is no direct access to the gun. The firearms declaration tag should be placed inside the bag on the outside of the metal storage box to show the gun has been declared.

I did have everything locked in the manner you specified above. The one thing I wanted to mention was that the TSA agents at both airports insisted on the declaration tag being inside the locked case with the gun. I personally thought this was stupid, and it would make a lot more sense for it to be on the outside of the case, since obviously i'm the only one with the key to that case, and if it was inside the case they wouldn't be able to verify it had been declared, but regardless, I was specifically told by the agent at DFW that it was to be inside locked up with the gun.

Long story short, I really don't think there are any specific rules regarding this process. CHL holders seem to understand one set of rules, the ticket takers understand another set of rules, and every TSA agent has his own interpretation of the rules as well. Doesn't matter to me, as long as my firearm makes it where it needs to be and I don't end up in handcuffs...

[Excaliber]

Another thing to remember is that the metal box you lock the gun in should have a key that only you retain (not a TSA bypassable lock) and the luggage it's contained in should have the TSA lock on it. That way, if the bag is opened again after the initial inspection, it can be done without cutting off a lock and there is no direct access to the gun. The firearms declaration tag should be placed inside the bag on the outside of the metal storage box to show the gun has been declared.

I did have everything locked in the manner you specified above. The one thing I wanted to mention was that the TSA agents at both airports insisted on the declaration tag being inside the locked case with the gun. I personally thought this was stupid, and it would make a lot more sense for it to be on the outside of the case, since obviously i'm the only one with the key to that case, and if it was inside the case they wouldn't be able to verify it had been declared, but regardless, I was specifically told by the agent at DFW that it was to be inside locked up with the gun.

Long story short, I really don't think there are any specific rules regarding this process. CHL holders seem to understand one set of rules, the ticket takers understand another set of rules, and every TSA agent has his own interpretation of the rules as well. Doesn't matter to me, as long as my firearm makes it where it needs to be and I don't end up in handcuffs...

Your logic is correct, and most TSA folks I've met either understand leaving the tag outside the case is the most reasonable thing to do, or they catch on when I point out that a reinspection would require physical destruction of the case lock to verify that it had been declared. The good thing is, even if the tag is put in the case, the bag is almost never reinspected because of the symbol placed on the destination tag, so in practical terms it doesn't matter much unless something unusual happens.

Ticket agents appear to have very little training in this area, and you need to be vigilant and insist that the procedures you know are required are followed. If they're not, you're the one in trouble, not them. I make sure I know all the ins and outs, and ask for a supervisor at the first sign of uncertainty.