Support 2011 HB86 - Campus Carry

[Douva]

I don't think this bill is going anywhere. HB 750 seems to be the bill that everyone has signed on to. HB 750 allows private institutions to "opt out" of allowing licensed carry by adopting rules and regulations that prevent it and limits licensed carry to Texas CHL holders only.

Rep. David Simpson, author of HB 86, has thrown his support behind Rep. Joe Driver's HB 750. He's also stated that he'll amend his bill so that it would also allow private schools to opt out.

[NorthTexas]

This is the only clause I do not like:

An institution of higher education or private or
independent institution of higher education in this state may
establish rules, regulations, or other provisions concerning the
storage of handguns in dormitories or other residential buildings
that are owned or operated by the institution and located on the
campus of the institution.

So if you live on campus, you must keep your gun in your car anyway.

I don't like this either, but I agree with Keith B, I don't think the bill(s) would pass without this. HB 86, HB 750, and SB 354 all contain this in some variation, that says to me that it's got to be in there for a bill to pass.

good catch
may establish rules, regulations, or other provisions concerning (forbidding?) the storage
is vague and overly broad ... should say
May require you to buy a small safe to store stuff in... from Academy.

(On sale this week)

Or if dorms start furnishing safe's like lockers
"May require you to rent a safe to store stuff in"

HB 750 and HB 86 both use the word "concerning" while SB 354 uses the word "prohibiting." I'm not a lawyer, I don't know if the phrase is vague and overly broad. I'm more worried about the interpretation of "storage." I know that at least one state university housing department is aware of these bills and is currently preparing and planning for the possibility of passage. Water cooler talk says they think they can prevent anyone from carrying concealed in the dormitories via this clause.

I'm not sure how they could come to that conclusion, my guess would be either they ignored/missed the word "storage" and thought the clause would allow them to regulate carry as well, or that they are considering any time a firearm is carried in a dormitory (such as by staff, etc) as "storage" (of a temporary/short duration) that they could regulate. My (non-lawyer) reading of the bills leads me to believe universities could choose to prevent students from storing firearms in their dorm rooms, but universities would be prevented from prohibiting employees, students, visitors, etc. from actually carrying while in the dormitories. I'd love to hear others' thoughts and insights on this.

From what I hear, said housing department seems to have no interest at this time in safes, lockers, etc. When they were notified a couple weeks ago about these bills, the general response was similar to the unfounded fears of "blood in the streets" leading up to the passage of Texas' concealed handgun law sometime back.

[NorthTexas]

I don't think you will ever get away from this as I don't think it will pass without it. Being able to properly secure your weapon would be tough if you live on campus due to shared housing, etc. Also, campus housed students are usually under 21, and even those 21 - 25 are probably not going to have a CHL anyway. Admittedly, there may be a few, but those would be rare IMO.

Securing a weapon in campus housing may be more possible than you think. Due to student demand, many universities have been moving more towards private room living arrangements with new construction. While there certainly are lots of old double- or triple- occupancy, 1960s style dorms around, there are an increasing number of newer buildings that are mostly or completely private rooms. These usually attract upperclassmen (more likely to be over 21), and there's no roommate to need to secure a firearm from in this case. Also, I know of one university that houses all (or nearly all) on-campus students, including graduate students, in university apartments past the freshman year. I believe students can choose whether to pay for a private bedroom or whether to share a bedroom with a roommate at that university; again, with no roommate, securing a weapon would not be a major challenge. If one of the campus carry bills passes, I believe university housing departments will have the option to regulate (or not) storage of handguns in campus housing - I sure would love to see them make some kind of allowance for those with CHLs instead of just prohibiting storage across the board.

While it's not something you mentioned, the large numbers of veterans who will be coming back from the Middle East and using G.I. Bill benefits in the coming years may increase the number of college students with CHLs who want to live on campus. Personally, I wouldn't have thought they would be likely to move into on-campus housing (especially those veterans who are married and/or have young children), but one state university anticipates enough demand from veterans that they want to build new apartment-style family housing for them now (budget cuts are proving troublesome there). I think it would be ridiculous for a housing regulation on handguns stored in campus housing to effectively tell a returning veteran, "Our military trusted you with an M4 but we can't trust you with a CHL and a handgun." Just my opinion.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Note that HB750 uses the following language; "concerning the storage of handguns in dormitories. . . " This is not all residential housing. It also applies only to housing located on the campus.

Chas.

[speedsix]

...I know our educational system will do everything they can to hinder concealed carry, weapons in dorms, guns in the parking lot...they think they know what's best for us all...regardless of the facts and of history...
...I just hope that the legislation is clear and pointed enough to keep the colleges that are dead set against us being armed there from going around the bill and penalizing or expelling students because the student handbook forbids it..similar to the rights an employer has with the employee handbook...
...it's gonna take a lot of diplomacy and yet hard-headedness to hammer out a bill and pass it that will protect the students and employees from winning the battle...the law being passed...and losing the war...their job or degree being threatened...

...seems like a daunting job...I'm glad there are those that are willing to do it...

[Cobra Medic]

My ideal campus carry bill would be short and sweet.

Section 46.03 (a) (1) does not apply to a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun.

[speedsix]

...that'd be almost perfect...but the poor student/employee could still be expelled or fired...that's the hard part...

[Charles L. Cotton]

...that'd be almost perfect...but the poor student/employee could still be expelled or fired...that's the hard part...

That's why HB750 doesn't deal only with the Penal Code.

Chas.

[Cobra Medic]

...that'd be almost perfect...but the poor student/employee could still be expelled or fired...that's the hard part...

It would make it no different than any other business. The parking lot bill is separate bill. It would be great if they passed a law protecting RKBA from discrimination in the same way as religion, but that's a decision above my pay grade.

[Charles L. Cotton]

...that'd be almost perfect...but the poor student/employee could still be expelled or fired...that's the hard part...

It would make it no different than any other business.

But we want it to be different from any other business.

Chas.

[Cobra Medic]

You want it to be different. I want schools and hospitals and shopping malls all treated the same.

[Charles L. Cotton]

You want it to be different. I want schools treated the same as hospitals and shopping malls.

We want schools to be treated differently than hospitals and shopping malls. "We" being a large majority of the Texas House and Senate, the majority of gun owners I've spoken with, the NRA, TSRA, TFC. You're the only person I've seen that didn't want protection for the students and employees.

Chas.

[speedsix]

...the protection this offers the institution against liability is strong enough it ought to remove the resistance...I don't believe it's about their fear of liability, but their wishes to enforce their liberal philosophies...and that's what we'll have to deal with...

[BrianSW99]

You want it to be different. I want schools and hospitals and shopping malls all treated the same.

Pro gun legislation comes in steps. As I see it, this is just part of the progression of eliminating the restrictions of the original 1995 CHL law. Almost every legislative session since then has seen small (or large) improvements. Campus carry just happens to be the next progression in the elimination of those restrictions. Several tragic high profile events on college campuses over the last few years have propelled campus carry into a nationwide movement, which makes it a good time to pursue it here in Texas.

For me, it's not that I specifically want universities to be treated differently, it's that I would want all places to be treated the same way we're trying to treat universities. I understand the issues with private property rights, but if we can do it for peace officers, we feel we should be able to allow CHL's the same carrying privileges.

Brian

[tacticool]

For a while now, certain hospitals and churches have been saying they don't have to post 30.06 signs because they're also schools. If HB86 passes, will they have to comply (parking lot & policies) because they're schools? It seems only fair.